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.. to be disappointed that a racist received a standing ovation!

573 replies

NannaNoodleman · 13/05/2019 08:55

Danny Baker: Standing ovation at first show since Twitter storm www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48249637

What is wrong with people. He showed his true inherent racism but people still believe he's a top bloke!

OP posts:
NoSauce · 14/05/2019 09:08

But even if he didn’t mean to be racist with this tweet you’d have thought and hoped that when pointed out it did come across as racist because the new baby is mixed race that he would have made a heart felt apology. He didn’t and that’s what stands out here and makes it appear that he knew what he was doing. Most people would be horrified and being accused of being racist if they’re not and would go to a lot of trouble to say how sorry they were.

Orangeballon · 14/05/2019 09:15

He used a rascist tweet as a joke about the royals. Apart from that how would you like your baby compared to a chimpanzee no matter what your origin is?

He is a thoroughly nasty man.

SomethingOnce · 14/05/2019 09:37

Genetic of course. What is black culture? Black people are as diverse as they come. Is there a white culture? Black people live all over the world in many different countries and cultures. What is this black culture you are referring to that you think I'm suggesting runs through Archie's veins?

I was asking what you were on about, not suggesting anything.

Whatafustercluck · 14/05/2019 09:38

Do people realise how insulting it is to claim ‘s/he doesn’t look mixed-race’ and ‘most people won’t realise s/he’s mixed race?’

Because what you’re saying is ‘I have a stereotypical notion of what black people look like in my mind, and Meghan Markle doesn’t fit that stereotype’.

Genuinely don't understand this. When I was growing up we lived next door for a number of years to a Pakistani family. The mother gave birth to a child with incredibly pale skin, freckles and red hair. We knew she was mixed race purely because we knew the family. It was unusual because, given her genes, she was far paler than science tells us she should have been. It made no difference to how we treated her, or her family, because even if she had been born brown skinned our behaviour towards them would have remained as it always had been - mutual respect, friendship, absence of racism/ application of stereotypes. I have little doubt that she suffered less racism when not with her family, because she was not obviously brown skinned.

A stereotypical notion is assuming someone has certain unseen characteristics or behaviours purely on the basis of how they look - I.e. our unconscious bias.

My observation of MM, without knowing her background, was "wow, she's beautiful. Beautiful skin tone, lovely dark hair - she looks like many women I have seen from Spain and Italy". When I discovered her mum is black, I thought: "wow, she's beautiful. Beautiful skin tone, lovely dark hair." The only thing that changes is that I now know she's not Spanish or Italian. It literally makes no difference to how I perceive her knowing that her mum is black. Because I don't attribute stereotypes based on someone's appearance. Had she been 'obviously' black, I would likewise have thought her beautiful. What interests me most is how she is so very untypical of the kind of people the royal family usually couple with: mixed race, feminist, feisty, qualities I admire and respect.

At no point, however, either having knowledge of her background or not, would I have thought to compare her to a monkey. But if I were a racist, then I would have been more likely to use the ape trope having known about her family background, which rather proves how illogical and baseless racism is, but cannot be denied.

MM's 'stereotype' is not about her physical appearance. A stereotype would be assuming that she will behave in a certain way or hold certain beliefs purely because of how she looks and discriminating against them because of it. And that would indeed be racist, when based on the colour of her skin.

Lifecraft · 14/05/2019 10:00

Did anyone read TFBundys post? The mother of a mixed race child, who feels she now has to make an effort to no longer refer to him as a cheeky monkey. How sad is that.

But I guess it's the world we live in. Everyone desperate to be offended, if not for themselves, then virtue signalling by being offended on behalf of someone else. Trial by Twitter and social media, found guilty and publically (metaphorically) executed.

Hate speech is an offence in the UK. So are the police taking action against Danny Baker? Or perhaps they don't think they have a case.

Others saying "he compared a new born to a chimp, it's outrageous!" No it isn't outrageous, it's satire. It's been around for hundreds of years, thousands even. He's got nothing against the newborn, or MM as individuals, it's the institution he's mocking. The performing circus that is the Royal Family. You don't have to agree with him, or find the joke funny, but surely people can see the point of the joke.

People are never happier in this country than when they are outraged by something.

areyoubeingserviced · 14/05/2019 10:27

Lifecraft- you say that DB is mocking the institution. If that the case, why hasn’t he ever posted a photo of Louis or George.?When George was born the ‘circus ‘ was even more evident as he was William and Kate’s first born so interest was great.
Furthermore, it is disingenuous to suggest that people are ‘desperate to be offended’ .
So you are now saying that black or mixed raced people don’t have the right to be offended .?
I have always believed that some individuals are fine with the existence of racism as it protects their place in the hierarchy. I am white and I am fully aware that racism against minority groups occurs and I am also aware that I am a ‘beneficiary ‘ of racism
Some don’t want people to call out racism and prefer to use the term ‘Political Correctness’ to prevent racist being called out
It’s a crying shame

LimeKiwi · 14/05/2019 10:30

He's got nothing against the newborn, or MM as individuals, it's the institution he's mocking. The performing circus that is the Royal Family.

So why not use a picture of a dressed up clown then? Why not when William and Kate had Royal babies, or Zara etc?
There is absolutely NO WAY as a journalist that he didn't know which Royal was about to give birth, and must have known about her background.
Maybe he did do it unthinkingly but if he did, why was he not immediately mortified and apologetic? I know I would be if I'd innocently tweeted a performing monkey tweet about a black person!

Oh and this poster Everyone desperate to be offended, if not for themselves, then virtue signalling by being offended on behalf of someone else.
What a load of absolute fucking bollocks, sorry.
It's not virtue signalling to be disgusted by racism. Whether it was meant or not.

LimeKiwi · 14/05/2019 10:31

Cross posted with areyoubeingserviced re If that the case, why hasn’t he ever posted a photo of Louis or George.?When George was born the ‘circus ‘ was even more evident as he was William and Kate’s first born so interest was great

Exactly!

lyralalala · 14/05/2019 10:34

We might not know Danny Baker’s intention when he posted that pic, but we do know he’s a liar.

He said when someone posh had a baby that was his “go to” photo, yet so far there’s not one single example of when he used it before.

None of the Cambridge births, no other royal births, no ‘posh’ births, none...

HBStowe · 14/05/2019 10:38

Absolutely. Why this child, with that image? Those desperate to excuse him, please ask yourself why you’re so quick to believe it was nothing more than obscure commentary on the ‘royal circus’ when he has only ever bestowed the privilege of this comparison on a mixed race baby? Why didn’t it occur to him to do the same over any of the many royal babies which preceded this one?

Please, ask yourselves why a man who is incredibly familiar with the racist trope of comparing black people to monkeys, having witnessed it happening in his own arena, chose that image for this specific baby, having not previously commented on royal births.

Lifecraft · 14/05/2019 11:05

Well don't worry folks, there will be another bandwagon along in a minute to be offended and outraged by.

That's the way it goes, instant outrage followed by total apathy as we move on to the next storm.

MPs pay - something must be done, BBC pay, something must be done, Grenfell, Raheem Stirling's gun tattoo, Windrush, Alfie Evans, Danny Baker.

Something must be done (but not by me obviously, I'm too busy crucifying people on social media)

Suiker · 14/05/2019 11:33

Those desperate to excuse him, please ask yourself why you’re so quick to believe it was nothing more than obscure commentary on the ‘royal circus’ when he has only ever bestowed the privilege of this comparison on a mixed race baby?

So on the basis of a sample size of one, you conclude a direct correlation between the use of this photo and its relationship to racism?

However, having followed Danny Baker for years, I've known him to send up the Royals on multiple occasions (I remember his twitter feed on the day of Will and Kate's wedding), and I've known him to be racist zero times. That's why I'm inclined to think this was a stupid mistake of trying to send up the Royals than racism.

LuvSmallDogs · 14/05/2019 11:37

Well I’m not surprised as there are plenty of rapists and abusers working in show biz with nary a batted eye. Didn’t the BBC employ nasty old Leslie Grantham after he murdered someone? I suppose tweets are more serious.

Lifecraft · 14/05/2019 11:51

However, having followed Danny Baker for years, I've known him to send up the Royals on multiple occasions (I remember his twitter feed on the day of Will and Kate's wedding), and I've known him to be racist zero times. That's why I'm inclined to think this was a stupid mistake of trying to send up the Royals than racism.

He's had a 44 year career in the public eye. He's worked on the NME, interviewed many black musicians without any hint of racism, has promoted black music and eulogised over many black artists, he's had numerous football shows on the radio where he's broadcast against racism on the terraces.

But none of that matters, one tweet ( that according to him wasn't anything to do with race) and that's it. Charged and found guilty by the masses, career over.

Can I suggest, if anyone has a spare 10 minutes, to google and watch Jon Ronson - How one tweet can ruin your life.

Suiker · 14/05/2019 11:52

Just leave this here

.. to be disappointed that a racist received a standing ovation!
SpanishFly · 14/05/2019 11:57

Suiker I'm not sure what that tweet proves/disproves?

SomethingOnce · 14/05/2019 11:57

However, having followed Danny Baker for years, I've known him to send up the Royals on multiple occasions (I remember his twitter feed on the day of Will and Kate's wedding), and I've known him to be racist zero times.

I know almost nothing about DB.

But a world where one misjudgement is to be regarded as more significant than a lifetime’s conduct, a revelation of ‘what we suspected based on prejudices of our own all along’? Not sure we want to go there tbh, but those who disagree can crack on if they think it’s the best way forward.

HBStowe · 14/05/2019 12:00

However, having followed Danny Baker for years, I've known him to send up the Royals on multiple occasions (I remember his twitter feed on the day of Will and Kate's wedding), and I've known him to be racist zero times.

He hasn’t compared any of the previous royal babies to monkeys. So again, ask yourself - why this baby? Out of the many there have been in the last few years, why is it that he only reached for the chimp image when it was a mixed race child?

It’s inconceivable to me that people can’t see this for what it is.

Suiker · 14/05/2019 12:02

I'm not sure what that tweet proves/disproves?

It doesn't prove anything in particular, but it demonstrates that Danny Baker has a history of mocking the Royals, and that includes the Royal babies, not personally, but as an institution. Earlier in the thread, someone wrote

"you say that DB is mocking the institution. If that the case, why hasn’t he ever posted a photo of Louis or George.?When George was born the ‘circus ‘ was even more evident as he was William and Kate’s first born so interest was great."

Suiker · 14/05/2019 12:07

So again, ask yourself - why this baby?

I think I've explained why I'm skeptical of your claim. You're working on a sample size of one, which means you're seeing what you want to see. It's inconceivable to me that you won't even admit the possibility that you might be wrong.

Suiker · 14/05/2019 12:22

I'm going to leave this thread now, but I want to say I agree with the outrage mentality - I think it's a real problem in our society.

Second, I think in trying to impute motives to Danny Baker, it's a problem of Bayesian inference and prior knowledge.

I know Danny Baker as a bit of a blabbermouth, mocks the Royals, no history of racism in a long career. So I infer a foolish tweet.

Others see the racist trope, they're more aware of MM as mixed race, and so they infer racist intent.

No-one knows who is right, and it doesn't really matter.

Scarcelyburnt · 14/05/2019 12:25

Suiker, it is not a sample size of one though, is it. There has been several Royals babies and never has he used the monkey analogy except in the case of a mixed race baby. The sample size is 5 in the last 6 years and more if you consider Royal babies outside of Harry and William to include Zara for instance. So at least 7 babies. So out of 7 babies, he chose 1 to use this racist analogy. He never used it the 6 previous times but yet claims it's his go to thing to compare Royal babies with monkeys. Lies and spin. Can you show me where he has used this money image for the recent 6 other royal babies? No? Thought so!

Scarcelyburnt · 14/05/2019 12:26

Suiker, you use statistical terms but you seem to know very little about it in practice. Your comment about a sample size of 1 said it all.

HBStowe · 14/05/2019 12:27

Suiker, it is not a sample size of one though, is it. There has been several Royals babies and never has he used the monkey analogy except in the case of a mixed race baby. The sample size is 5 in the last 6 years and more if you consider Royal babies outside of Harry and William to include Zara for instance. So at least 7 babies.

Lots of people ignoring this very pertinent fact!

No-one knows who is right, and it doesn't really matter.

Racism absolutely does matter.

Gth1234 · 14/05/2019 12:28

I doubt he is a racist. He's very entertaining. I also expect many people smiled at the picture. We are just not allowed to say so. Still the mob need their public hangings.

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