.. to be disappointed that a racist received a standing ovation!

[NannaNoodleman]

Danny Baker: Standing ovation at first show since Twitter storm www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48249637

What is wrong with people. He showed his true inherent racism but people still believe he's a top bloke!

Genetic of course. What is black culture? Black people are as diverse as they come. Is there a white culture? Black people live all over the world in many different countries and cultures. What is this black culture you are referring to that you think I'm suggesting runs through Archie's veins?

If it wasn't posted with racist undertones, and if his "that's my go to when someone posh has a kid" there would be copies of his tweets posting it when Prince Louis was born and several other royal and 'posh' babies had been born.

There's a distinct lack of "here's the 51687 times Danny Baker used that photo" which really rather says it all.

I'd wouldn't be surprised if he's like a lot of well known people and has a private account and it was meant to be posted there instead of public as he can only have known how it would blow up. That said he's probably had more publicity over this than anything else in his career so if the 'no publicity is bad publicity' thing hangs it'll likely be worth his while once the dust settles.

I am astounded by the number of posters who are bending backwards to claim that this tweet wasn’t racist. Racism comes in different forms. As someone else pointed out , you don’t necessarily have to have a white sheet over your head to be racist.
At the very least it was unconscious bias. He didn’t think about how the tweet would be received, because he didn’t have to think or care. It’s as simple as that
He simply jumped onto the anti Meghan bandwagon because it has become acceptable to do so,
He is a man with a massive ego and little respect for others.

Do people realise how insulting it is to claim ‘s/he doesn’t look mixed-race’ and ‘most people won’t realise s/he’s mixed race?’

Because what you’re saying is ‘I have a stereotypical notion of what black people look like in my mind, and Meghan Markle doesn’t fit that stereotype’.

DB’s comment about the baby isn’t less racist just because people don’t think the baby looks obviously mixed race. It’s not an excuse to suggest that he didn’t make the connection because the baby doesn’t fit a racial stereotype closely enough. This is a man who we now know was completely aware that the baby is mixed race, and is completely aware of the racism of comparing black people to monkeys. It is no excuse whatsoever that you don’t think the baby has obviously stereotypical black features.

I am genuinely stunned by the apologists on this thread. This wasn’t an inadvertent slip of the tongue or slightly inappropriate comment that DB is being criticised for. Comparing a mixed race baby to a monkey is one of the most blatant, explicit acts of racism I have ever seen from a mainstream broadcaster. And whether DB intended that, or whether it wasn’t his primary intention but he didn’t care that it also had a racist meaning, is irrelevant to me. Both options are racist.

As others have said Danny Baker is probably more well known now and will probably make a mint out of the whole sordid affair

So basically, you’re racist if you immediately think about Meghan Markle being black, but you’re also racist if you don’t immediately think about Meghan Markle being black. Got it

There's a distinct lack of "here's the 51687 times Danny Baker used that photo" which really rather says it all 👏🏻.

Yep, c'mon apologists.

The having a private account suggestion and thinking (maybe drunkenly as some posters have suggested) he was posting it there could be spot on Lyralalala.

But unfortunately yes he'll find a way to gain from it anyway. Starting with the standing ovation.

So basically, you’re racist if you immediately think about Meghan Markle being black, but you’re also racist if you don’t immediately think about Meghan Markle being black. Got it

Don’t be so bloody facetious. You’re racist if you compare black or mixed race people to monkeys. I do not believe this is difficult to understand.

As has been pointed out, he had a long running segment in his show called “Monkeys dressed as famous people plus fairground music”

No-one knows what his intention was, but the circumstantial evidence for me suggests that it wasn’t intentionally racist. For those who want to believe it was racist, it’s their choice to make

Scarcelyburnt the thing is race is a social construct and isn’t to do with genetics. Humans are only one race. In America they used to have the one drop rule which was extremely racist. If a child is born with fair skin he/she is much less likely to suffer racial discrimination so skin colour sadly is important.

You’re racist if you compare black or mixed race people to monkeys. I do not believe this is difficult to understand.

But as has been written, many racist people wouldn’t think of Meghan Markle as mixed race. Is it racist because they make the comparison, or because they don’t think of MM as mixed race?

I agree with you that it’s racist to consciously compare someone of African heritage to an ape, but no-one knows if that is the case here.

To be honest, I’m not sure why you don’t get it. It’s not that difficult to understand.

But as has been written, many racist people wouldn’t think of Meghan Markle as mixed race.

On what basis are you asserting this as being fact? It clearly isn’t more than an unsubstantiated opinion, and one which is instantly challenged by the widespread racism MM has been subjected to since she became involved with Harry.

Is it racist because they make the comparison, or because they don’t think of MM as mixed race?

It is racist to compare MM or her baby to a monkey, because they are both mixed race. It is also racist to say comparing them to monkeys is ok, because they don’t fit some people’s idea of what mixed race people should look like.

I agree with you that it’s racist to consciously compare someone of African heritage to an ape, but no-one knows if that is the case here.

It is simply not plausible or credible to suggest that DB, with his specific history, was unaware of the racist connotations of the example he was drawing. Those of you who insist on this interpretation are bending over backwards to find an interpretation that saves you from confronting racism, regardless of how utterly unsupportable by evidence or reason that interpretation is.

To be honest, I’m not sure why you don’t get it. It’s not that difficult to understand.

Believe me, I understand. It is, sadly, painfully familiar to see people going to extraordinary lengths to justify racist behaviour when the perpetrator of that behaviour is a successful, popular white man.

I thought you were talking about Nigel Farage from the title.

On what basis are you asserting this as being fact? It clearly isn’t more than an unsubstantiated opinion

I'm not asserting is fact at all, but I am paraphrasing what some have said about how insulting it is to not see MM as mixed-race because she is relatively light-skinned.

It is simply not plausible or credible to suggest that DB, with his specific history, was unaware of the racist connotations of the example he was drawing.

No-one denies, not DB himself, that after the facts, he was aware that a) MM is mixed-race, and that b) there is a racist trope of black people = monkeys/apes.

The subtle distinction is whether he was thinking that at the time he made the post.

Expressions and imagery related to apes and monkeys are pretty commonplace. The expressions "pay peanuts, get monkeys", talking of your child as "little monkey", or aping around come to mind. So is the concept of a circus animal.

Secondly, I do think not everyone labels people by their race immediately. I'm taking my experience of someone whose partner is mixed race. I'm not, and wasn't conscious of it when we met. If you asked me, and I was filling in the census form, I would write mixed race, but it's not at the forefront of my mind. I don't go through work, consciously thinking of my black colleagues as black. I'm not claiming not to see race, I'm just saying it's not at the forefront of my mind that Dave from Accounts is Black.

What suggests to me that Danny Baker didn't have racist intentions in mind is that when the connotations were pointed out to him, he deleted the post. He then went off to apologise (not very well at first). Lastly, this is someone who has no history of racism in his 40 years in the media.

Hes a Millwall fan. They're well known for monkey chanting and throwing bananas.
He was a highly paid BBC broadcaster and journalist working in a BBC building , so of course he knew who was having a baby. He says he knew of "some royal baby hysteria" that he was trying to avoid. But a tweet a few days earlier confirms he knew fine well whose baby it was.
Even if he truly didnt know, he knows there could and would only be 2 royal couples that there would be "hysteria" over.

I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. I like Danny Baker. He has his faults but ultimately I don’t think he is an out and out racist.

I don't suppose we'll ever know what Danny Baker's true intent was, or what was in his conscious or unconscious mind when he posted that awful tweet, but even if we give him all of the benefit of the doubt, I don't think it really matters. People in the public eye have a duty to think through what they say in person and what they post on social media, to consider how it might be received and the impact that it might have. Regardless of Baker's intent, he absolutely should have known better and the BBC was right to sack him.

We cannot just turn a blind eye to racism and say, oh, he didn't really mean it.

Stairway, genes determine the colour of your skin. What you are referring to is entirely different. Genes passed on through our parents determine, to an enormous extent, what we look like. You know exactly what I mean but like so many apologists here seek to make silly points to detract from and excuse Danny's racism.

As for being racist for pointing out Meghan is black or mixed raced. I am pretty certain that no one has made these claims. The issue is about either trying to make her mixed heritage invisible because she does not look like... Or could pass as.. Or using her race to denigrate her and her child by comparing them to monkeys. It's not that difficult to understand but then again, those who have less than honourable motives will never see the problem with racism but will do their utmost, ploughing all their energy into defending racism and pointing fingers at those fighting against racism, saying they are in the wrong.

I love this thread because any one who thinks racism is dead and is only overt, will see just how some people will go all out to defend and protect the institution of racism.

Zippey, what is out and out racism? Do you think only out and out racists cause harm and that they are better than subtle racists?

So subtle racists are more acceptable than out and out racists?

Can I just say that I really hate the phrase "could pass as"...

It's often said about my dd that she could "pass" as this, that or the other. Someone even said to me once that she could pass "as one of us". As far as I'm concerned, she is one of us, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

If her mixed race features were more obvious, does that mean that she could not "pass" any more?

I’m 42 years old, have travelled pretty widely, been to a big city university, work in the NHS frontline and I had no idea (until this tweet) that there was any form of racial slur connecting black people/monkeys. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen racism and heard racist terms but not this & when I first saw the tweet being reported as racist I didn’t get why!

I have since had this conversation with DSIL (who is black) and she was very offended by the tweet & very aware of the racist connotation. She can’t believe I didn’t get it & that I had never heard this as an insult

Obviously I’ve been living under a rock!

My DSIL is not easily offended but this tweet crossed a line.

My nieces are Maaori, one looks unmistakably Maaori like dad and one looks ridiculously Pakeha (white) like mum. It's irritating when people assume they are not sisters, but understandable I suppose.

Alexashutup, exactly. It is so insulting and infuriating. But you would be surprised at how many think it is something good that they are saying. The implications of that statement, of denying someone's heritage or making it invisible are steeped in deep seated racism.

Riverdisguise, I don't think it is as simply as you don't look like your sister or mum, etc. Meghan does not look like her mum but that's not the issue here. I wouldn't be irritated if people told me my daughter doesn't look like me or are surprised that we are mother and daughter. We don't look obviously alike especially as our skin colour are very different. I really don't think that's the issue here.

@TFBundy-As the mother of a mixed race baby, I agree with this. It's other people commenting that "reminds" me about DS, it's not something I am particularly aware of. This debacle has also made me realise that I should probably stop referring to DS as a little monkey (because whilst he is a typical cheeky pre-schooler, he is also the only mixed race kid in his pre-prep). I still don't believe DB is crass enough to post something so overtly racist with full realisation of how it would be received. It's highly likely he "knew" MM was mixed race (whatever he now says) and was also aware that there was a racial slur associated with monkeys, but for whatever reason, he didn't join the dots before tweeting. It's right that he was fired, because that was unforgivably daft, but I don't think it's grounds for turning his testicles into earrings.

Best post on the whole thread.

He's a muppet, but probably not (intentionally) a racist.