To refuse to have BIL in my home again?

[mediumbrownmug]

I haven't bothered to name change, as I don't care if this is recognized. My BIL is in his mid twenties, and has graduated with a degree. He's been screened for everything, and while he has ADD (like my DH), there are no other issues present.

Tonight we had my MIL and BIL (who lives with her) over for pizza to spend time with our DS, who is two years old. The invitation was issued to them both. While DH was out picking up the pizza (they arrived as he was leaving, as they showed up a bit early), BIL repeatedly teased my son over the course of the night, even worse than the last few times we were all together. (To avoid a drip feed, yes, this has happened before, and each time he's been asked not to do this.)

Tonight DS was running around asking for a cookie, and BIL offered my toddler a closed fist and told him he had a cookie in it for him (he didn't), and promised to give him the non-existent cookie if he did what BIL wanted. I obviously intervened immediately and told DS BIL didn't have a cookie and asked him not to tease DS as it would hurt his feelings and make him cry. BIL laughed it off and claimed DS didn't understand. I assured him he did. MIL didn't say much, but appeared to back me up. This happened again with something else (a toy), and again I intervened.

DH came home with the pizza, and BIL quickly grabbed a slice while we were getting DS's piece cut up as it was too hot for DS to eat. BIL proceeded to tease DS, dangling his pizza in front of him and asking if he wanted it, saying he couldn't have any. Then he started eating it in front of him and making "mmm" sounds, and taunting DS.

DH intervened immediately, telling him in no uncertain terms not to tease our son like a dog. BIL laughed it off yet again, saying DS "didn't understand" (he certainly did). MIL chimed in backing DH up. BIL laughed her off, too. Finally, I stepped in, stopped the conversation, and told BIL flatly not to tease our son. While that was all I said, I can be quite intimidating and BIL was embarrassed at not being able to pass it off as a joke.

That seemed the end of it, but throughout the night he continued pretending he was going to take my DS's candy out of his hand, etc. AIBU to not have him over anymore? Taunting DS with our food (that we paid for) in our house seems to be taking it a bit far. Especially since the only acknowledgement he gave was an "ok" and not an actual apology. At this point, I can't see having him over for holidays either, as I don't want DS's holidays spoiled. DH agrees, saying that if he wants to see his brother he can do it on his own (which obviously is fine).

We're reasonably certain that we can still see MIL on her own without BIL, but would rather there not be a problem as they live together. Thoughts appreciated.

"He's been screened for everything, and while he has ADD (like my DH), there are no other issues present".

I find your comment on his ADD very odd. It's almost certainly part of his ADD that causes him to struggle to interact properly. This comment seems really dismissive of his condition.

People have different symptoms so although it sounds like your DH has better social skills your BIL does not.

I'm sure posters wouldn't make some of these comments if OP had said her BIL was on the autistic spectrum.

It just shows how little undestood ADD and ADHD still are. People with these conditions are still told to "grow up" and "stop being dicks". It makes me very sad for my daughter.

Not good, and wouldn’t want him tonhave and unsupervised access to DS, but not sufficiently bad to “ban from the house” IMO.

Oh I remember so many men like this growing up! Especially my friend's dad, he was massively annoying, and still is. It comes from social awkwardness rather than malice, but SO tiresome.

I wouldn't officially bar him from the house, but minimise contact, and be very clear and vocal when he does it that "Weird Uncle Jimmy is being weird again. Ignore him."

I had an uncle like this. It was laughed off as ‘tormenting’ when I was little and my parents did nothing to stop it. As I got older the ‘tormenting’ became more vindictive, more aggressive and I hated him for it but by then learned behaviours meant I felt beholden to put up with it due to ‘family’ and having been told constantly throughout life that my uncle had been so good to me. The final straw was in my 30s him physically restraining me and crushing my hand in front of my wife and kids. He was also starting the taunting of my own kids too, turning up uninvited and me not feeling like I could say no to a cuppa. The sense of relief and freedom I felt when he died was unreal. I’m 42 now and still suffer from self esteem and confidence issues and as a parent just wonder why the hell my dad didn’t just stand up and put a stop to it.

OP, stop it now before you’re in a position where it’s too far down the line. BIL or otherwise, ADD or otherwise, protect your children. Ask yourself would you allow a stranger or friend to treat your child this way, or allow another adult to treat you yourself this way. Laughing it off because they are young is just avoidance. They do understand, and it will damage them. I wonder at 42 what kind of person I’d have been if I’d been brought up in a nurturing, caring environment and not been taught that my feelings and boundaries didn’t matter. Would I have not been bullied throughout my entire schooling? Would I be happy now?

I remember dh grandfather and brother tutting that dd didn’t say thank you for a present in an eye rolling kids these days way. She was a baby and pre verbal.

I totally sympathise OP. Some children may be able to understand and deal with this behaviour more than others, but at 2, you won't know which your son is, he's too young. I also had an uncle like this, and I didn't know how to deal with his teasing - to this day, I strongly dislike practical/teasing sort of jokes. My uncle isn't a very nice man in general, and when we got older he would play fight with us until we were crying with pain/begging him to get off. If we complained we were told to toughen up and stop being so touchy. Good for you for standing up for your child.

I have a grandfather like this. He has a very inappropriate sense of humour and I can't stand to be around him as he's embarrassing.
He finds it amusing to wind kids up either to get them arguing back or to get them over excited.
Family meals out I hated with him when my so was a toddler as he would wind him up to point I couldn't sit and enjoy family meal anymore as my son was now out of control.
Simple solution was I just don't bother with him and I don't miss him in slightest.
My father can't stand him either, it's his inlaw, for same reasons as me.
The man acts like a child with add

Take away pizza and candy in one night for a two year old isn't good

So not the point.

I'd try to look at why he's doing it.

Does he want to interact with your son but he doesn't know or understand how?
Does he think he's being cool? That it's funny? That's my impression, that he thinks he's being really funny and having a laugh.

Then he gets defensive when he's told not to do it and he thinks you're wrong, so basically carries on doing it.

At the end of the day he's your husbands brother so it would be nice if this could be fixed and they could have some kind of relationship.

Your BIL is a sadistic prick and I'd never have him around your child again. Anyone who takes pleasure in tormenting a small child is sick.

This.

Its almost worse on a tiny child as they don't have the language or comprehension to understand any of it.(not saying its ok with an older child but at least you can explain a bit better that some people are nasty). At this age they are still so innocent as to believe that all humans are put on the earth just to keep them safe. Its really cruel.

Your child needs you to protect him from this bastard. Don't second guess yourself, you know you are right. Stand firm.

Going against the grain completely here, to say that although he sounds annoying, barring him from your home is a complete overreaction. No lasting damage will have been done to your son, and you're being a bit precious.

Lindy. My DS is only two, and so his need not to feel taunted by an adult is of course paramount in this particular situation. I wouldn't be here if I weren't trying to figure out the best way to navigate this. As for your daughter, she will be strong, like you. She'll be grateful for you fighting her corner all her life, so never, ever stop. Always speak up, never give up. You may not be able to make the world a better place for her, but know that she has already made it a better place by being in it.

Heading to bed for the night (it's massively late here), but want to say a genuine thanks to all who've contributed. Lots of good advice and thoughts here; in fact, I don't think there's a single post that hasn't been helpful in some way. So thank-you.

It might be worth having a conversation with him, without DS present - something along the lines of “we want you to have a good relationship with DS growing up, and it’s not getting off to the best start as teasing him continually, upsets him. It also teaches him he can do it to others, which really isn’t fair to him or others”. (I.e. we don’t want you to be known as Uncle Dickhead).
Tbh, sounds like he doesn’t know how to play with your DS, so maybe teach BIL how to play with him. Or, if he’s not the “get on your hands and knees, put on the characters voices and follow a totally implausible storyline” kind of guy, give him a book to read with your DS. It’s a nice activity that can help keep everyone calm and unstressed before dinner.

For those saying OP is being a bit “precious”, I had an uncle knobhead who called me “ugly” every time I saw him, but he did it repeatedly and just laughed it off. My DF did nothing.
Guess who I didn’t like visiting when growing up and resented her DF for not doing anything about it?
Its not the best way to foster good relationships, including the one I have with my own body image as a young person.

Take away pizza and candy in one night for a two year old isn't good.

A good post otherwise ruined by this unnecessarly judgemental dig.

YANBU

My own dad was like this, and enabled other stupid men to behave like this around us as kids -an uncle and particularly one of his friends we called uncle.

What I learned is that:

1. These men are total dicks
2. My parents are not on my side
3. How to sit quietly and accept being treated like crap

Keep him away. If your child asks about him as he gets older you can tell him why he doesn’t see much him, and make his own decision (with your support).

What your child will learn:

1. His parents are on his side
2. Good boundaries -you don’t have to accept bad behaviour, you can step away.

I think a major thing we can do for our kids is be on their side, be the safe place/people they can trust, support boundaries they make...even when it feels socially awkward with other adults. He’s only 2 but BIL makes him upset, there’s a clear message for you.

YANBU.
My parents had a friend like this. He once emptied a whole jug of water over my head when I was about eight. My parents told me off for crying because he was "only joking".
It was 30 years ago and I still have not forgotten the feeling of humiliation and helplessness.

I'm she really doesn't have to take his ADD into consideration. She needs to prioritise her 2 year old who is being bullied by a grown man.
If he can't control himself he doesn't need to be around his nephew. He clearly brings no positive relationship to him.
I'd give him one more chance. And it would be one more. If he comes to your house and screws up you stand up say get out and DH opens the door for him.

I have seen a fair few relatives and friends 'play' with my or other kids in this way. I never thought too much about it and was going to defend it when I read your post, but perhaps there is something amiss in it. If the child isn't enjoying it, then it's not a game is it? Maybe it's a kind of power play and bullying?
I think some of it is definitely being unaware of what proper play is, so the poster who said just give them a game to play is possibly on the right lines, although with the entrenched behaviour pattern it's easy to imagine it going wrong.
Maybe it's better to begin teaching your son some life lessons about people who tease, something like
'Sometimes x doesn't know how to play right. If he's doing it wrong just walk away/ say 'play fair''?

I have a BIL who's very like this, although he's gone further by pushing his and my nephew's face into a birthday cake

He's a bully, and I avoid him as much as I can, though my DSis and other BIL seem to like him as do the nephews. In my case, calling him out on stuff like this would only encourage him because he gets a kick out of winding people up, and would just find it funnier.

I think you could consider inviting him round once more. On arrival tell him that the way he teases your dc upsets them, and even if he doesn't think they are upset, you're his parents and you know that he is. Then pick him up loudly every time he does it, and say stop, this is the behaviour we're talking about.

If he laughs if off, tells you to stop being unreasonable etc, then you have your answer, and in front of his mum and brother. So in future there'll be no mystery as to why he doesn't come round anymore. My guess is he'll only get worse as your ds gets older, as he'll be able to verbally spar with him.

I have a few memories of family friends, men, who thought they were funny in this way. Luckily they were only sporadic visitors, I'd have hated it if they were around regularly.

Planes Are you not tempted to turn the tables on your dickhead BIL? I suspect people like him would hate being subjected to the same kind of jokes. Maybe a nice dollop of cake in his face, trip him up, hide his things, make up a nick name for him and use it ALL the time ?

Well, he's a dick and it's up to you if you want a relationship with him or not, of course. But words like 'sadistic' and 'bullying' seem a little like hyperbole in this instance.

I have a family member who is like this around my children. They don’t have their own children and they have no idea how to play with young kids. They’ll try and trick and tease them, and ask them questions designed to trip them up. In my case it is because the person feels a bit anxious and on the back foot. They don’t know what to do and feel a bit under pressure and get it very wrong. Then they are defensive and angry because they feel stupid. I love this person dearly, they have some problems going on in their life and I want them to have a relationship with my kids, but it is painful to watch.