Told off by nursery staff member - AIBU?

[SinkGirl]

This happened when I was picking my twins up yesterday, and for some reason it has really really upset me and is on my mind this morning.

My twin boys are 2.5, they both have ASD. They have been going to nursery two mornings a week since January and they love it there. One is in the baby room due to his developmental delays, the other is in the toddler room.

The staff know that my life with the boys is a whirlwind with all of the appointments, therapy, and work we are doing with them - on top of being a mum and a carer I’m basically a full time PA managing everything.

Yesterday I was waiting on a call from a consultant with some information on a test one of the boys needs to have.

I went into the toddler room to get one of the boys, there were two members of staff and three toddlers including mine (the others were asleep with the dividing blind down). I’d been in there a few minutes and they were filling me in on what he’d been up to as always, when my phone rang. Withheld number so probably the hospital - I said excuse me and went to the corner of the room to answer it.

After about 60 seconds, the room leader came over looking very concerned and said “can you get off your phone?” in a very abrupt way. The other staff member was changing my son’s nappy at the time so I thought maybe there was something wrong, so I apologised to the consultant and said I would need to call her back.

But no, she just wanted me off the phone. I then realised they must have a rule about parents not being on their phones in there, which I totally understand, but it was really important - she must have heard I was talking to his consultant from what I was saying.

If that’s the rule (which I wasn’t aware of as I’d never normally be using my phone when collecting them) that’s totally fine, but she could have just asked me to step outside until I was done - the way she told me to get off the phone made me think she needed to talk to me urgently for some reason.

I couldn’t get hold of his consultant afterwards and she’s not in now until mid next week so I won’t be able to get the info I need until then.

I don’t know why this has upset me so much - it’s made me feel like they think I’m a shitty distracted parent, I guess. It’s not like I was on Facebook or playing a game. It’s so hard trying to juggle everything and they are well aware of this. I hate breaking the rules and I hate people thinking I’m a bad parent (which happens a lot when you have toddlers with ASD!).

I think a large part of my reaction is the fact that I’m a dreadful perfectionist and never feel like I’m doing a good enough job. I’m sure most people would think I’m overreacting and to be honest I agree that I am, but it’s really bothering me much more than it should.

If she’d just asked me to step out or gestured for me to do so I would of course have done that, I would never knowingly break a rule like this. We’ve spent a lot of time at children’s centres where you’re not allowed to use your phone at all and I never have.

Argh, why am I so upset about this? Am I just being ridiculous?

mathanxiety you must have had a huge and busy foyer area! 60 odd bag lockers. Staff faffing around at hand off to take baby in plus the days nappies (or restock of your pile they keep inside), the days bottles etc. Then what happens during the day? Staff leaving the kids in the room to be constantly in and out to the foyer locker area to get new changes of clothes every time needed (mine went through at least one change a day until 3yo), jackets from bags to go on/off, used rinsed bottles back in bags etc. Or they bring baby out juggling all this as well? Ours have always had locker area’s for bags/jackets in rooms and while invariably kids remain dressed toddlers are buggers for taking bits of clothing off anywhere and everywhere and leaving it lying around. Parents generally do a mental checklist of clothing/spare clothing and when it looks as though a top is missing on going through the bag it’s easy to shout over to a carer actively looking after a child who could generally locate it. Otherwise I guess you could go through back after handover and intercom back in to get them to look for missing clothes/bottles that didn’t make their way back into the bag etc.

It's irrelevant who you are speaking to. Phones in a nursery or school setting are banned for safeguarding reasons.

I'm surprised people don't know that.

Yes you are overthinking it but so would I because I'm exactly the same. I have a SEN child and I put myself under so much pressure to stick to the rules because that's what you're supposed to do right. Especially when you don't want to give anyone another reason to frown upon your family when they are seeing your child's behaviour everyday (instead of the child) and making judgements on your parenting. It's fucking exhausting.

But I can tell you something that I wish I was able to believe for myself - you are doing the best that you can. You are good enough. You don't need to apologise or feel embarrassed.

The staff member could have used some tact or like you say ask you to step out.

This thread has reached 12 pages, I think we’ve more than covered that who you’re talking to is irrelevant. I already covered that I shouldn’t have taken the call inside and would not have done so had I been aware of the rule or thinking more clearly. I’m sure I’m not the only person to have answered an important call in a rush because they’re so focussed on what’s on the other end.

How would you people automatically know this rule though? They are my first children,
none of my mum friends’ kids go to nursery as family look after them, I’d never been in a nursery until we went to look round a few.

It’s a piece of assumed knowledge by so many here but I’m not sure where you think people would pick it up? Many PPs have stated that their nursery has large signs - they wouldn’t need those if people automatically knew this would they? My nursery doesn’t and I’ll definitely suggest very politely that they put one on the front door. In fact I realised last night they didn’t send me a copy of the parent pack until they’d already been there a few weeks, when I asked for their policy on illness and attendance.

As for the other points raised...
There’s no way our nursery could do pick ups without you entering the room - it’s a converted house (albeit a reasonably big one with a porch and a fairy hallway. There’s a small alcove under the stairs with pegs for coats etc. When I pick up the twins each one comes with a ridiculous array of stuff, their coat is on the peg but the rest of their stuff is in the room: shoes and socks which are never on their feet any more, a jumper/cardigan, a cup, a lunch bag, a large PECS folder for one, a small bag of cards for the other, chew toys, their log books etc.

How are staff who have crucial ratios to meet meant to take each child out of the room to the front door for pick up? The baby room is upstairs so there’s definitely no way they could bring each child down.

Other places may work this way if they’re set up for it, but none of the places I visited worked like this (and I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be as a parent either, not seeing inside the space they’re in all day on a regular basis).

I came back to the thread this morning to look through my responses, as alongside the very kind and supportive posts and messages I got yesterday, there was some pretty aggressive criticism of my personality and my attitude. I thought perhaps in my very emotional state yesterday, I’d maybe come across wrong.

Nope. There’s some people who seem to really enjoy gaslighting a person who’s already struggling emotionally - that’s not a great personality trait, you might want to consider what’s behind that. Given the state I was in at points yesterday, it’s pretty telling of my overall politeness that I didn’t tell anyone to fuck off, because several posts definitely warranted it.

As for the comment about how I shouldn’t have time to respond to my own post if I have so much going on - this is mumsnet, most of the members have children, many of us have children with additional needs. Do you leave this comment on every post where someone discusses that they have a problem and also difficult life circumstances? I hardly spent hours arguing - there was a period of about an hour where I was sitting down resting after little sleep and a lot of cleaning, otherwise I checked in every couple of hours when I was already having to do something else on my phone. Amazingly I’ve become quite good at multitasking. Shocking.

Yes, the overly emotional response I had to the situation may appear excessive and clearly wasn’t just down to being told to end a call. I’d say that much was clear from not only my OP but my subsequent replies from the outset.

It seems clear to me that some posters use AIBU as a way to unleash their pent-up unpleasantness with impunity, and I guess those former school bullies people prefer to pick on someone who’s already an emotional wreck. Lovely.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank those who not only offered support in the thread and in messages, but those who wanted a reasonable discussion around the actual subject, rather than insults and personal attacks that were completely unjustified.

Valuable lesson learnt: stay away from AIBU. I forgot that last time I posted here I was accused of my twins being imaginary because anyone mentioning that they have twins online is making them up. This place is like the twilight zone 😂

Our nursery has zero tolerance phone policy too. I once needed to take a call while at nursery so I just stepped outside the building and used phone in car park.

Not huge but organised and there was no faffing. There were separate entrances for the different age sections. In each there was a foyer with intercom and cubbies on two levels plus room for footwear. No parents got to walk in past the interior doors leading from the cubby areas/foyers, certainly nobody ever got to go in to look for a missing item.

Babies and children were brought to the foyers and handed over in the morning and brought out and handed over at pick up time. There were sign in/out sheets in these foyer areas too.

Supplies like nappies and wipes were communal and arranged by size in the changing areas. Bottles were kept in the fridges and went in bags in the foyers once finished and rinsed. If a bottle or two didn't make it back into a bag parents shrugged - it would end up at home some time. Same for clothing (it was all labeled). It was expected that you would have extra clothing and bottles at home and wouldn't depend on having the exact number sent home daily. Parents likewise didn't expect any conversation beyond friendly greetings at drop off or pickup. Communication was done by email and text.

It's not safe to have stuff like discarded clothing lying around so one person daily tended to monitor the floor constantly and remove items that might be a hazard, decide if a child needed their discarded sweatshirt or if they were ok in a t-shirt, and put discards in the right bag. This 'float' ran errands like fetching clean clothing, rinsing bottles and putting them in bags, clearing up accidents, rinsing and bagging clothing after accidents, spill cleanup, general assistance at snacktime and mealtime, assistance with toileting.

Fucking hell OP, this will run and run!

You're not rude and FWIW it would have upset me too.

@SinkGirl aibu are always black and white when it comes to rules 😂 so I knew the replies you’d get.

I can’t even begin to understand the amount on your plate, you sound like an amazing mum.

I’m so sorry this woman has had the power to make you feel less than and small..... it sounds like you’re coming out of that now though. I really hope so!

I always teach my children ‘chose kind’. It’s become a bit of a motto - from the book wonder. I think the member of staff would do well to read and reflect. There was no reason whatsoever for her the handle the situation the way that she did. All she needed to do was say sinkgirl? No phones allowed in here, can you take that outside pls? What did she achieve? Making a mother under pressure feel rubbish. Well done her 👏🏼.

Please, please, please don’t waste any more time on this. Have a great weekend 💐

That sounds very organised math - totally different from where we go though. Personally I wouldn’t be comfortable with that sort of environment - I find it really helpful to see the boys in the environment, whether they’re interacting with the other children or (usually) not, seeing how they respond to staff when they haven’t spotted I’ve arrived yet, etc. I also get to have a chat and pick up and drop off with their keyworker which is really important as their behaviour is so variable. At pick up the other day, they got to show me a particular toy DT1 was really interested in - I got to see how he was engaging with it rather than just being told that he was, IYSWIM

(And before I’m accused of expecting special treatment, every parent gets the same chat at pick up and drop off).

I’m also quite paranoid about mistreatment / abuse due to my own history and them being nonverbal, so I would really struggle not seeing them in the environment and interacting with staff and the other children.

It’s good that there’s such a variety of settings though as all kids / parents need different things :)

Nope, I’m done stressing about it. It’s a lovely day and we have two extra pairs of hands so we are going to the beach.

How would you people automatically know this rule though? They are my first children,

You wouldn't automatically know, but it will be written in your contract.

OP, genuinely, I think some of the posters on here have behaved like utter arseholes towards you. Not for disagreeing with you etc., but just for the manner in which they've spoken to you in their posts. Unfortunately, it seems to be becoming more and more like that which is such a shame, as I can imagine you and many others who read such posts, won't be in a hurry to come back and ask for advice again.

It sounds like you could do with a sounding board sometimes as you've a lot on your plate, so I hope.you don't let a few twats keep.you away from MN.

Just a thought, when entering a room of sleeping babies and toddlers surely you would mute your phone, be considerate.

take care op
step away from aibu if its not positive.

i have been on mumsnet 13 years this autumn, and i have only just learned this, ask a question, the thread doesnt go well, turn off mumsnet

save your blood pressure and your headspace for something else op. I mean this kindly

My kids are now in primary and high school. The first thing I do when entering the grounds is mute my phone, it's common courtesy and avoids disruption. Same applies to nurserys.

OP, I've just read your last post and I think you're brilliant

I hope when you get to speak to the consultant next week, the news is better than expected.

Will look out for you on the SEN board

This is a standard rule in all nurseries.

I absolutely would not answer my phone whilst in the nursery picking up and I too am waiting for a call from a consultant about a test result. Your call is not more important than anyone else's and you are not above the rules. I'm surprised you felt entitled enough to stand there and blatantly have a conversation!

Also should have said I haven't read the thread or any of your responses.
I hope all is well when you do finally speak to the consultant

It seems lacking in self awareness to call the OP entitled when you think your insight is so stunningly important that you just have to share it despite not having bothered to RTFT or even the OP's posts.

The OP isn’t justifying breaking the rules, she really didn’t realise that it was against the rules to have taken the call. Yes, maybe she should have used her common sense, but on this occasion she didn’t, we all make mistakes. The OP was desperate to speak to this consultant so without thinking she took the call.

I remember times when I was desperately waiting for a call from a professional

Posted too soon. It was very frustrating when I couldn’t take the call, knowing that I might not get another chance to speak to them for a while. I can therefore sympathise with the OP’s situation and for that reason don’t judge her, especially as she did it through ignorance.

Anyway, what’s done is done and the OP won’t be making that mistake again.

Personally I would complain to the nursery manager. There was no need at all for the staff member to speak to you like that. They could have politely asked you to either end the call or take it outside due to their policy. There is absolutely no need for rudeness.

I would raise it in a way to ask why you were asked to end the call in an abrupt manner and explain that it had worried you as you believed something was wrong and had meant that you now have been delayed in receiving important medical info about your child as a result. I would add that if it's nursery policy for no phone calls you will if course take urgent phone calls outside in future as you have no desire to break their rules; however this was inadvertent and it would have been more appropriate for the staff members to explain and ask politely rather than abruptly as they did.

I think the real thing is that you're stressed about about not being able to get hold of the consultant OP. So you're replaying this situation in your mind over and over thinking that if the nursery staff had phrased what they said in a different way you could have continued the call and got the information from the consultant that you desperately need.

From the nursery staff's point of view, they weren't being unreasonable because they have a strict policy which they need to enforce. Asking in a more polite "Would you mind?" way may be ignored, and they couldn't have asked you to step into the corridor because it's probably a policy that applies to the whole building apart from maybe the staff room. They think you already know about the rule and are ignoring it, and even if they knew it was a call with doctors they probably wouldn't appreciate how hard it is to get hold of them and cannot make exceptions in any event.

You are clearly under a lot of stress and didn't know about the rule. Even if it was included in the info provided by the nursery, I'm guessing life has been stressful for quite some time and it would have been impossible to read everything they sent you.

Nobody was being unreasonable, and you'll be able to stop fixating on this once you speak to the consultant next week

Personally I would complain to the nursery manager

The OP has admitted to making a mistake in not reading the nursery policy on mobile phones, because she’s snowed down with appointments etc. That’s fine, everyone makes mistakes.
So why isn’t the nursery worker allowed the same courtesy? She made a mistake in talking in an abrupt manner, and in wording her requested clumsily. Maybe she’d had a rough day. Maybe she’s got a lot going on at home. Maybe it was the 3rd safeguarding policy breach that day by various people and she was feeling frazzled. Why can’t people cut other people a little slack?

The OP appears to be happy with the nursery in general so making a complaint would be very counter productive. It’s better to avoid making complaints when you want to cultivate a good working relationship with your children’s nursery/school.

Anyway, the staff member didn’t actually do anything wrong; she only spoke in an abrupt way in the OP’s opinion, and an opinion is always subjective.

It's a standard rule in all nurseries. It's in the paperwork parents sign at most (although small print at the end of ours and many seem to have not actually read it). Phones in rooms can get nurseries into a lot of trouble! She could have been nicer about it but quite possibly expected you to know the rule.