Told off by nursery staff member - AIBU?

[SinkGirl]

This happened when I was picking my twins up yesterday, and for some reason it has really really upset me and is on my mind this morning.

My twin boys are 2.5, they both have ASD. They have been going to nursery two mornings a week since January and they love it there. One is in the baby room due to his developmental delays, the other is in the toddler room.

The staff know that my life with the boys is a whirlwind with all of the appointments, therapy, and work we are doing with them - on top of being a mum and a carer I’m basically a full time PA managing everything.

Yesterday I was waiting on a call from a consultant with some information on a test one of the boys needs to have.

I went into the toddler room to get one of the boys, there were two members of staff and three toddlers including mine (the others were asleep with the dividing blind down). I’d been in there a few minutes and they were filling me in on what he’d been up to as always, when my phone rang. Withheld number so probably the hospital - I said excuse me and went to the corner of the room to answer it.

After about 60 seconds, the room leader came over looking very concerned and said “can you get off your phone?” in a very abrupt way. The other staff member was changing my son’s nappy at the time so I thought maybe there was something wrong, so I apologised to the consultant and said I would need to call her back.

But no, she just wanted me off the phone. I then realised they must have a rule about parents not being on their phones in there, which I totally understand, but it was really important - she must have heard I was talking to his consultant from what I was saying.

If that’s the rule (which I wasn’t aware of as I’d never normally be using my phone when collecting them) that’s totally fine, but she could have just asked me to step outside until I was done - the way she told me to get off the phone made me think she needed to talk to me urgently for some reason.

I couldn’t get hold of his consultant afterwards and she’s not in now until mid next week so I won’t be able to get the info I need until then.

I don’t know why this has upset me so much - it’s made me feel like they think I’m a shitty distracted parent, I guess. It’s not like I was on Facebook or playing a game. It’s so hard trying to juggle everything and they are well aware of this. I hate breaking the rules and I hate people thinking I’m a bad parent (which happens a lot when you have toddlers with ASD!).

I think a large part of my reaction is the fact that I’m a dreadful perfectionist and never feel like I’m doing a good enough job. I’m sure most people would think I’m overreacting and to be honest I agree that I am, but it’s really bothering me much more than it should.

If she’d just asked me to step out or gestured for me to do so I would of course have done that, I would never knowingly break a rule like this. We’ve spent a lot of time at children’s centres where you’re not allowed to use your phone at all and I never have.

Argh, why am I so upset about this? Am I just being ridiculous?

but then comes out swinging and gets nasty when their question is answered

I haven’t gotten nasty to anyone who’s just “answered my question”, and your post was inaccurate because I have admitted early on I was unreasonable for being upset, and also that I was in the wrong for answering my phone (and upset by breaking the rule inadvertently as that’s something I would never had done knowingly).

So far on this thread I’ve been called a variety of nasty things (selfish, egotistical, putting my kids above other kids, odd, pedantic, over-dramatic, immature, moany, basically accused of lying, etc) and attacked for things I’ve neither said nor done, by people who either deliberately misconstrue or have limited comprehension skills. And some people have taken great pleasure in laying into me when I was clearly in a bad state.

But I haven’t been nasty - I’ve been frustrated and saddened by people’s desire to be as unpleasant as possible.

And pinkblanket as I’ve explained previously, I didn’t know I wasn’t allowed to use my phone, I would have excused myself immediately had I known. So when she told me to get off the phone, while my son was out of sight having his nappy changed, I assumed there was a problem which required my urgent attention (not the first time). It was only after I got off the phone that I realised what was actually happening and then I immediately apologised.

Afterwards I became upset, not because I was “told off” but because I didn’t want to be perceived as a parent who doesn’t give a shit, who breaks rules and is also inattentive to her children, and upset because if she’d phrased it differently so I understood what the issue was, I could have popped out and completed the call and wouldn’t be facing several more days not knowing the important information I was very close to receiving.

Throw in the fact that I’ve hurried my son’s new paediatrician who I’ve never met off the phone, which also worries me in terms of her perception of me (especially when I’ve been hassling her secretary to get her to call me), it was a stressful situation on top of many other stressful situations (not all of which I’ve gone into here).

Hopefully now I’m calmer and less upset, that’s a bit more clear.

hatemyhair your last post is especially despicable

Yeah, and I’m the nasty one.
🙄

Don't worry about it OP.

You should have gone outside to take the call.
The staff member was probably just a bit surprised/worried about letting you break safeguarding rules in her room and likely uncomfortable about challenging a parent so was a little abrupt.

I think it’s posters like you that are the reason why she’s blowing this out of proportion by goading her. Why carry on with it? Do you enjoy kicking people when they’re down?

SinkGirl, I've just come back from hospital with my DD and it's been a very stressful time since our appointment was delayed a year due to admin not being done. Aka cock up. That's stressed me so I can only imagine how you are feeling. You've done nothing wrong. If nursery staff say anything all you need to say is you ended a very important call due to them making you feel there was an emergency and while you are sorry for breaking a rule you were unaware of they have also added to your stress.

Make some time for yourself this weekend.

I see this approach a lot on mumsnet - posters pile in being nasty and critical and then when the OP defends themselves they get accused of being overly defensive, dramatic, verbose... it’s like being back at my girls’ grammar as a 13 year old.

The idea that responding to something in detail, so as to actually address the points raised, is somehow indicative of a personality flaw is a bizarre one. I guess some people really do have a short attention span. TL;DR, eh? 🙄

Actually, you specifically called me egotistical because I believed the staff know about the challenges we are facing. But don’t let facts get in the way of a good dig!

At a certain point, you have to ask yourself if the situation is really that serious to warrant so much energy thinking about it? Again, you clearly have other things to be stressed about but you are blowing this out of proportion. You’re fixated on the wrong things dear.

You really don’t get anxiety, do you? Is that how to fix it, just stop worrying about the wrong things? Brilliant, that’s millions of people that no longer need medication or therapy thanks to your miraculous insights. Call the BMJ!

SunshineCake a year?! That’s appalling. I hope your DD is okay and that you feel able to let PALS know about your experience.

My very part time is in maternity services and I come across these cock ups so often, it’s really appalling. With our genetic test screw up, the doctor filled in the right form (it was right there in his file) but it wasn’t submitted. The lab saw the test was requested but didn’t have the additional form so they just didn’t do it, and nobody noticed it. Then the secretary underlining the importance of us both attending was just bad communication, since the consultant had just said it would be good to meet my DH and get an idea of how he’s coping with it all. The consultant was absolutely mortified when she realised what conclusions we had reached!

A couple of months ago we went in for a test that was meant to take an hour (so I was told) - we ended up there for 5.5 hours because they booked us in two hours before the nurse managing the test even came on shift! It’s always like this, which just adds to the stress and frustration.

I really hope the appointment went well at least now you’ve had it

Op you're your own worst enemy. You've trolled yourself for 11 pages over a trivial matter.

All of you who are saying how unreasonable she was and screaming safeguarding, I wonder if you know how difficult it actually is to get hold of a consultant and get them to call you back? My mother can go weeks trying to get hold of her consultant, and I mean weeks*
Some may do, try MONTHS

You really don’t get anxiety, do you? Is that how to fix it, just stop worrying about the wrong things? Brilliant, that’s millions of people that no longer need medication or therapy thanks to your miraculous insights. Call the BMJ!
That’s me cured too then, call the papers there’s a cure!

I wouldn't worry about nursery, they really won’t remember this next week.
Ring the hospital mon and leave a message for the consultant, just let them know you were dealing with your children and unable to talk and then couldn't get through again.

Thank you SinkGirl.. I am hugely relieved that the year has made no difference to her situation and care and luckily it hasn't as it was actually 13 years ago she got forgotten and we've been paying privately for all that time.

There's a fine line between accepting things take time and the NHS is stretched and not wanting to be rude or have your child forgotten. If there had been negative consequences I would have complained. I just asked that when it comes to her next two appointments she isn't forgotten again.

I also think the fact the GP knew the referral had been done (was done by an A&E doctor who had never seen my DD before) but didn't have anyone to follow up how the appointment had gone added to the wait. Plus the woman lying to me when I rang to ask what was happening and was told yes, on the system, will be a little while for me to find out four months later they had nothing and it was actually another hospital in a different area.

HollowVictory - are you trying to live your name?.

Try to forget about it OP. I think nursery staff are given a free reign to be very rude and abrupt if you break certain rules. There are actually signs in DS's nursery that warn you that they wont hesitate to be rude if you don't comply. Mobile phone ban is one of them.

I think it does work though. I once, very stupidly, held the door open for another parent and was absolutely mortified by the way they pulled me up on it, in a very direct and abrupt way in front of the other parent. I think you just have to understand that maybe them being so 'hot' on it is an effective way of ensuring you don't break the rule again so minimises their risk exposure.

Firstly OP, I want to say how sorry and understanding that many PPs and I am how stressful and tough your life feels right now and how exhausted & emotional you must feel. A number of MNs and myself genuinely get that - as we have and continue to have the most fraught and stressful lives - for various ressons.

Secondly, PPs have tried to make a point, that you have- through stress and high emotions - slightly misunderstood or not really heard.

That doesn’t mean she couldn’t have asked me to take it outside (even if her tone had been as shitty, I wouldn’t be as upset because I could have at least completed the call)

But it does. (Mean that). The SG policy will be that phones cannot be out and on, whilst in nursery. The nursery worker could not have suggested you keep the call going and walk through another room (regardless of whether just a few metres of hallway and entrance to exit building ) past other unseen children, staff and parents, to continue call outside, leaving phone in your hand, on and not away (in your bag or wherever).

Because Ofsted don't need to be outside waiting to catch a further SG breach that wasn't shut down immediately. Any other staff member- or more likely parent- could report, "I saw Joe and Fred's mum on her phone on talking and walking around unchallenged by nursery staff" for Ofsted to be very unhappy that the safeguarding policy breach wasn't shut down immediately and the nursery worker allowed it to continue. It's her job on the line and their registration. If you understood the reason it's such a hot SG topic then you'd feel it as less personal and that the nursery worker was helping you.

I'm really sorry to hear that has added to your stress. And totally get that you had good reason to want to continue the call. You could have ended call, walked outside and rung consultant back within a minute (once outside) if you were really that close to exit. (And the sad worry that your child's consultant couldn't wait a minute to be called back, and that chance to discuss with consuktant, might then be lost forever or not, the rest of that week to talk, isn't something the nursery SG policy that says "no mobile phone use", can factor in/ cater for. If you'd been driving or known about the no mobile use policy, that will be in your information pack, you'd have never answered that specific call whilst inside nursery anyway and it would have gone to message service.

And it's not something that nursery worker can take a risk on, she can't see who is in hallways and entrance, nor say "OP is fine to breach SG, ( listened in to find out it was a consultant call), it's those other parents...")

So when you posted -
I said excuse me and went to the corner of the room to answer it.... After about 60 seconds, the room leader came over looking very concerned and said “can you get off your phone?” in a very abrupt way. - Many PPs have rightly said nursery worker was polite and firm as she needed to be. Her intentions or motivations have been guessed at here and in your stressed state by you, as unkind, when it was unlikely to have been so. She didn't make a fuss and try to embarrass you. That you heard her quick firm request, in a stressed state, as abrupt, is always going to be subjective. They can sound the same, to different parties, in reality.

Op, I think this was probably just the last straw for you. You sound like you have a lot to cope with, I'm so sorry, and I hope all is okay with your son.

I would probably discuss it on Monday just to clear the air and get it off your mind. Perhaps say you didn't realise the rule and would have appreciated a less abrupt order from the staff member. Try to remember that nursery staff are poorly paid and perhaps poorly trained and have it really drilled into them to uphold safeguarding measures, understandably. I actually used to teach at a special needs school where a teacher was fired for taking a phone call in the stock cupboard in her classroom. The phone call was about her elderly mother who was in hospital but it made no difference to the head because of the blanket ban (previously a few tas had taken photos of the pupils and pit then on fb).

I hope you are okay. My ds is also under consultant care for a health condition so I do know how worrying it is to receive phone calls from the hospital.

That's why I think you can let it go. For your emotional state and as nursery won't hold it against you, it's not persinal. (unless you repeat it, now you know). Leave your phone in your bag when in nursery. Please. XXXX

I cross posted with aliceelizaloves so my comment above refers to what I posted not her comment.

If nursery staff say anything all you need to say is you ended a very important call due to them making you feel there was an emergency and while you are sorry for breaking a rule you were unaware of they have also added to your stress

But the room leader didn't make OP feel there was an emergency- the OP made that assumption. It really isn't the nursery's fault that she got stressed.

This thread is nuts. If the OP really does have so much on her plate, I don't understand why she has spent hours arguing the toss on Mumsnet.

Try to remember that nursery staff are poorly paid and perhaps poorly trained and have it really drilled into them to uphold safeguarding measures, understandably

Poorly paid? Yes! Poorly trained? Don't make that assumption. Drilled to uphold safeguarding measures? Damn right they are.

Whilst I don't want to add to OP's stress, so this is more about other PPs comments, I think @CaffieneCate makes several good points

OP, please don't worry about responding to the negative comments on this thread. AIBU is getting ridiculous with the rudeness dished out, you have enough stress as it is to worry about any of the nasty comments on this thread.

Keep on keeping on.

Agree with NononoLimit.

This whole situation is ridiculous.

The mobile phone ban was because a member of staff in a nursery took photos of children as they sexually abused them while changing their nappies out of sight of their colleagues.

A parent talking on a phone in full view of a senior practitioner is not a danger to any child.

Yes. Ofsted expect early years settings to keep personal mobile phones away from staff and children in order to protect further children from abuse. That is quite understandable, although possibly a little OTT given that childminders have to be allowed to keep their phones and anyone wanting to repeat that offence could just conceal a second phone under their clothing.

It is not understandable to be rude to a parent who is clearly having a conversation on a phone in full view of other adults and not touching any child.

Children aren't put at risk by being near someone on a phone. If safeguarding policies are to be useful, they need to be understood. Blindly following rules without understanding them doesn't keep children safe. In fact, without the ability to understand the reasons behind a policy and think critically, doing so could create a false sense of security and put children at greater risk of harm.

Ofsted seem to be as unable to think critically about this as anyone else and, sadly, I think the nursery staff could be criticised for allowing the call to continue, even though it was clearly obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense and risk assessment capability that the children were perfectly safe in that particular scenario.

@SinkGirl Ignore the people who have written nasty replies. Some people think if you post on AIBU you should merrily accept any abuse that comes your way. If you do anything but admit you're a totally incompetent bitch they'll say "well why bother posting if you're not going to listen".

I think you've taken on board the genuine information posted. Raising kids can be stressful, especially when there are issues. It's so easy to feel under scrutiny and be extra sensitive to perceived criticism.

GPatz Fri 10-May-19 07:55:52
'I've picked my sleeping toddler up from a room of sleeping toddler and changed his nappy in the toddler changing room. If it's unusual, then my nursery is unusual'.

An example of why the phone ban is ridiculous. Anyone with any sort of record can literally walk into a room of small children. The phone ban does not guarantee anything except that important calls will be missed.

HoppingPavlova
How else would you drop them off/collect them? The only other way would be to wait in the foyer, somehow page into the room that you were there for drop off/pick up and for a carer to leave the room to come out to get the child OR have to stuff around in the room ensuring their bag was all packed up, they had everything and bring them out. They wouldn’t want to communicate about your child’s day or any relevant information as they would need to get back in the room pronto.

Yes, a foyer and intercom is how it should be done. Children's stuff should not be lying around the room or kept at separate points in the facility. It should be kept in a cubby area where outerwear is kept, the handiest place for that being a foyer area. Any information necessary to impart beyond 'Good sharing, pooped twice, ate his whole lunch' could be done by email.
This is how it is done in a facility catering for babies to age 4/5 that I am familiar with. Parents do not expect verbal communication on anything important right there in the foyer. If some emergency had happened during that day that had warranted attention from parents, the staff would have contacted the parents already. If a long term trend was being monitored then a roundup would be sent home weekly by email, with any salient developments commented on by email that day.