To think more emphasis needs to be placed on what is appropriate to say to childless people

[ChocoCrocc]

The following are pretty much weekly occurrences for me:

'When will you be having kids then?'
'Do you not want kids?'
'When you have kids...'
'Ugh, you're so lucky, they're such hard work'

My boss will quite often ask me if I'm pregnant if I go in and ask to speak to her about something or if I say I'm feeling unwell in a sort of jokey way.

In actual fact I'm suffering terribly with recurrent miscarriages and may never have a living child.

AIBU to think that the above sort of questioning of people who are practically strangers needs to stop and people need to be pulled up more when they do it?

I appreciate that people in my situation have a heightened sensitivity to this sort of thing but I feel like I shouldn't need to explain my situation to everyone who asks me these things (which I don't do anyway as it just seems awkward and private).

Miscarriage and other fertility issues are not uncommon!

My boss will quite often ask me if I'm pregnant if I go in and ask to speak to her about something or if I say I'm feeling unwell in a sort of jokey way.

Have you actually challenged him/her about this? presumably they know your situation. At best, it's really quite thoughtless and crass, not to mention inappropriate. Things are rarely said with the intention to deliberately hurt people .

The other stuff is just idle chit chat people make as conversation fillers or openers, along with the weather and the old 'it might never happen' style comments. People mean no harm.

YANBU, and sorry for your losses.

At the other end of the scale, I just find it so fucking BORING to be asked again and again as a newly married woman (after being asked for months about how wedding prep was going). It's akin to chatting about the weather every day, only also hideously personal.

My husbands grandad would not let it drop this weekend. Luckily MIL was fab, and completely backed up my casual, jokey replies about 'great grandcats'. Secretly I was thinking 'you may well be in the ground before we choose to have kids'.

YADNBU. I have had to educate my husband on this as he is the type to open his mouth before engaging his brain. If someone answers ‘no’ to ‘do you have any children?’, I then I talk about something else as I’m well aware that it’s none of my business why they have no children, and that it might be a painful subject for them.

People may not mean any harm but they should have more self awareness. It has always been obvious to me that asking about people's plans for a family is the height of rudeness as you have no idea what their situation might be.

I thought it was illegal for employers to ask if you are pregnant?

I agree. I was at a wedding three weeks ago where the key joke of the Father of the Bride's speech was handing over a Jeremy Corbyn baby-gro to the (extremely Tory) groom and saying when the baby comes, we expect it to wear this. Not only does the wife say she hates children, it's so dangerous and unbearably insensitive - you don't know who in the room is suffering - infertility, recurrent miscarriage, loss of a child at any age. It made my blood boil.

Also, some people are just dicks.

I think it’s outrageous that your boss jokes about that sort of thing. It’s so bloody thoughtless not to mention inappropriate.

You don’t have a heightened sensitivity - you just have a normal reaction to being on the receiving end of people’s thoughtlessness and stupidity.

It’s awful to think that those phrases are weekly occurrences for you. Especially given the personal pain you have been through.
And I think the post above validates your point- if people do just think stuff like that is idle chit chat then they do need to be a educated

The other stuff is just idle chit chat people make as conversation fillers or openers, along with the weather and the old 'it might never happen' style comments. People mean no harm.

I have a real issue with this, because meaning no harm doesn’t mean they aren’t causing harm.

It basically means they’re thoughtless (an unimaginative about small talk, but that’s a lesser sin).

The fact that it isn’t deliberate doesn’t absolve people of the impact of their words.

When my kids cause harm to others or objects because they have been careless or thoughtless, I don’t give them a free pass when they say ‘it was an accident!’ A predictable and avoidable accident is still down to the person doing the thoughtless thing that had the potential to cause hurt.

No she doesn't know as I'd prefer her not to right now. They have all been very early so I've been able to go to the EPU after work.

The other stuff is just idle chit chat people make as conversation fillers or openers, along with the weather and the old 'it might never happen' style comments. People mean no harm

I do understand this but that's exactly my point. It shouldn't be idle chit chat and whether you intend it to or not, it can cause harm to someone. It's a lot more of a sensitive subject than the weather but people just never think about it.

back when i was single and got similar crass questions about meeting someone/can't believe you are still single/you're too fussy ad nauseum, I used to say, you tell me, how's your sex life with your spouse? still sleeping together or has it dried up now you're married?

YANBU. It's in no way the same as being asked about children, but my DH and I were together for ages before deciding to marry, and all we ever got from family was 'when are you getting married?' 'Is DH scared of commitment?', 'why doesn't he want to marry you?'. Al extremely annoying as well as offensive - they had no idea about any of our mental health issues or our relationship, or the personal reasons as to why we waited so long. So since then I've learned never to question people's lifestyle choices unless they bring it up themselves and seem comfortable talking about it. It really is no one else's business as to whether or not you want kids or are trying to conceive, and people should just keep out of it. I know people are usually well meaning when they do it, but it's also really insensitive and crass.

I'm so sorry OP, people can be such utter shits! We all need to spread the word to everyone to asking about a woman's reproductive decisions is rude AF and insensitive.

I had a friend who used to do it all the time and we would just awkwardly laugh it off until she did it to another friend about 7 years ago. Friend 2 just burst into tears, she'd miscarried that morning. After that I make more of an effort to call people out on it as soon as I see it happening. It is not okay and people need to stop passing it off as 'mean no harm'. The speaker does not get to decide if harm was done or not, or if their words were offensive or not! It's not funny joking about pregnancy! You just never know. I get so wound up about this kind of thing.

Educate educate educate. I'd suggest OP that the next time someone joke asks if you're pregnant you ask them if they'd like you to whip out your tampon and slap them in the face with it.

I'd suggest OP that the next time someone joke asks if you're pregnant you ask them if they'd like you to whip out your tampon and slap them in the face with it

I know we're having a serious discussion but this made me nearly spit out my brew thank you!

All such valid points though. I don't understand why people always do it and you're definitely right that it needs spreading more that its just rude.

I feel like a bit of a hypocrite that I don't pull these people up but I just find it so hard to talk about what I'm going through that it's easier to just laugh it off. But that's the whole point, I don't feel like I should have to explain myself, people should just not ask!

When I first joined my workplace it was like the first question anyone asked me 'do you have/want kids?' it just makes me feel awful as if it's the first thing people need to know to make their judgement of me.

YANBU!

And I think we can't have too many threads, discussions and conversations about this sort of thing as far too many people still think it's an appropriate form of 'idle chit chat'!

I couldn't agree more. I think it's outrageous what people think it's OK to say to those without children. I've had it suggested that I'm selfish; like having kids is the world's most selfless act

OP, miscarriages aside (and I'm very sorry for what you've been through) I think your boss's 'jokes' are highly inappropriate bordering on discrimination. I'm not sure that she'd make assumptions about a male staff member if he asked to speak to her about something, or if he was feeling unwell. I'd speak to HR.

I feel your pain OP as a childfree woman myself. Have you looked into Gateway?

I'm sorry op people can be insensitive dickheads and often don't understand how painful it is to talk about things unless they've been through it themselves. Challenging them is all well and good but you shouldn't even be put in that position in the first place! It's still upsetting either way.

I was in a small office with 5 pregnant women, all due at the same time as me one of them knew I'd just miscarried and still moaned about how shit pregnancy was because she couldn't drink and she was gaining weight etc...know your audience!!

The subject of conversation was babies all day, everyday followed with "when are you going to join us in the mummy crew". and constant grilling on when I was planning to be pregnant. I'd come home raging everyday and it added huge stress to an already difficult time.

I can't help but feel like it's just another thing for people to label and judge. My husband never got asked questions about whether he wanted babies...funny that.

Again I'm so sorry and wishing you the best of luck op.

agree OP

whenever there's a thread about childfree women being criticised, several posters will ask "why are you talking about it?"

I'm not. It's frankly astonishing how nosey people are. So I'm only ever responding to questions.

your boss is behaving outrageously though, that's a bizarre thing to keep saying.

'People may not mean any harm but they should have more self awareness. '

Absolutely. As the OP says, miscarriage and fertility issues are hardly unheard of! It is never ever ok to hassle people about their fertility, you have no idea what kind of pain you might be intruding on so people should keep their thoughtless nonsense to themselves

'And I think we can't have too many threads, discussions and conversations about this'

Couldn't agree more! So many people just don't get it

Re my boss, we don't have a HR department. It's a very small workplace.

It's hard because as inappropriate as I find her comments, I do like her as a person and a boss so it's deciding whether or not to rock the boat. I actually think she'd be incredibly supportive if she knew what was going on but I'm not ready to share.

I just wanted to put it out there again for anyone who thinks these sorts of questions are okay! They aren't!

I just don't want children but people seem to think that's odd or don't even contemplate it, like "you are woman, must give birth"
No thanks, I want to stop the dysfunctional family bloodline!

I'm infertile, mid 30s, and I completely agree OP.

The amount of people that ask me 'so when are you finally settling down to have kids then?' or 'your life is great but you should think about having babies!' and 'you better have babies soon, time is running out!'

All actual comments I've received. They don't know I had 5 years of infertility hell and have been told it's impossible but it's insensitive to assume I haven't.

I know it's idle chit chat, but please don't do it. You don't know what's going on and it can be so triggering.

It should be considered as inappropriate as asking someone exactly how much money they have in the bank, what their fave sex position is or what colour their shit was that morning.

There's such a stigma surrounding women not having children as if it's our sole womanly purpose on earth. Whether it's through choice or infertility.

It seriously needs breaking!

For me, the mental torture of not being able to do what you feel you naturally should be able to is enough. I shouldn't have to deal with the social pressure from everyone else either.

Ah yes the perpetual question about kids.

I never ask people about their childcare choices. Ever. I got so sick of being asked myself!

I was sick to the back teeth of people asking me, I began to tell people that perhaps some people might find it offensive, maybe they are going through ivf or having a hard time conceiving? That shut people up.

It's like asking someone job hunting if they've found a new job? Any interviews yet? Have you looked at jobs.com?

Ad infinitum without picking up on my fuck off vibes.

. I shouldn't have to deal with the social pressure from everyone else either.

^

Nope. You shouldn't. So give it back to them.

YANBU some people are just very thoughtless / self centred / genuinely don't realise that other people have a different world view or life experience to them.

My (generally lovely) MIL used to talk about "and when the babies come...!" to me when me and DH got engaged. I had to put her straight that I was pushing 40 and it was probably not going to happen. We had actually being TTC for a few years at that point (quite relaxed about it, no IVF, no pressure, but still an emotional rollercoaster!) and it really got on my fucking nerves to be honest but I made it jokey.

We're going through the process to adopt atm and Jesus Christ some people are insensitive but that's a whole other thread! Luckily I'm pretty resilient and on the whole don't give much of a fuck about what twats think of me