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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think more emphasis needs to be placed on what is appropriate to say to childless people

144 replies

ChocoCrocc · 02/05/2019 11:46

The following are pretty much weekly occurrences for me:

'When will you be having kids then?'
'Do you not want kids?'
'When you have kids...'
'Ugh, you're so lucky, they're such hard work'

My boss will quite often ask me if I'm pregnant if I go in and ask to speak to her about something or if I say I'm feeling unwell in a sort of jokey way.

In actual fact I'm suffering terribly with recurrent miscarriages and may never have a living child.

AIBU to think that the above sort of questioning of people who are practically strangers needs to stop and people need to be pulled up more when they do it?

I appreciate that people in my situation have a heightened sensitivity to this sort of thing but I feel like I shouldn't need to explain my situation to everyone who asks me these things (which I don't do anyway as it just seems awkward and private).

Miscarriage and other fertility issues are not uncommon!

OP posts:

merrymouse · 02/05/2019 16:03

No OP you are not being unreasonable. I don’t think this compares to making a misstep when talking to somebody who has been bereaved.

Whether you can’t have children or have chosen not to, it’s a personal question that isn’t anybody else’s business.

It’s like asking somebody why they are single or about their financial situation. If they want to discuss it they will.

Original poster

ChocoCrocc · 02/05/2019 16:04

you will understand when you have kids

I find this offensive because I may never. There might not be a when for me. It's not because I feel like I understand what being a parent is, it's because it's another assumption that I will have children. Always said in a jokey fashion of course.

OP posts:

toomuchtooold · 02/05/2019 16:16

A colleague of mine at work (male, recently married, and slightly clueless) once asked me (in the context of our other colleague going on mat leave) "ooh, when do you think you'll get round to it then?" when I'd just had a miscarriage. So I told him. Man, his face. I know he meant well, and it was a bit unkind of me to just kill the convo stone dead like that, but hopefully it cured him of fucking stupid questions.

merrymouse · 02/05/2019 16:18

Like my dad isn’t alive but if someone says to me ‘what did you do for fathers day’ I don’t expect them to not ask because it’s happening and it’s fun for some/ most people.

I don't think anybody is arguing that is wrong to ask whether somebody has children - the reply can just be yes or no. The problem is the follow up questions.

The equivalent would be somebody learning that your father had died and then going on to ask how he had died and about your relationship. Of course you might want to talk about these things, but they might also be very painful. If you are talking to somebody you don't know very well you should follow their cues before asking personal questions.

stucknoue · 02/05/2019 16:25

People are insensitive but usually only when they are unaware. I've found the duel income no kids just as insensitive when they brag about "only" going to Bali this year, the irony is some of those people from my past, the ones who told me I was crazy to have kids in my 20's, are struggling with infertility in their 40's.

Perhaps if everyone took a few seconds before they made remark about families we would all be better off

RosaWaiting · 02/05/2019 16:25

I haven't asked about Mothers or Fathers Day since I was a child. I think it's appalling that schoolkids are still being asked to make cards etc.

the poster saying "if you end up in space where you can't ask questions" - that's my approach and it's fine.

Some people are just bonkers. I went to visit a neighbour who has a residential carer. The carer came to answer the door and said "Oh hi Rosa, lovely to meet you. I've heard so much about you. Are you married?"

It was so sudden, I realised later what I should have replied with was "why, are you proposing right now?"

StCharlotte · 02/05/2019 16:28

Not only does the wife say she hates children, it's so dangerous and unbearably insensitive - you don't know who in the room is suffering - infertility, recurrent miscarriage, loss of a child at any age. It made my blood boil.

Oh for Christ's sake, if you can't talk about babies at a bloody wedding, when can you?! And I say that as a woman who didn't manage to have a living a baby.

In fact, this is from the CofE wedding service so you may need to go to a higher authority "Marriage is intended by God to be a creative relationship, as his blessing enables husband and wife to love and support each other in good times and in bad, and to share in the care and upbringing of children.".

StCharlotte · 02/05/2019 16:41

But in answer to the OP,

AIBU to think that the above sort of questioning of people who are practically strangers needs to stop and people need to be pulled up more when they do it?

Yes, they probably do but who's going to do it? Her comments are obviously causing you some distress so I would cut the conversation dead with something like "actually we're having a few issues and to be honest, I don't want to discuss it but, rest assured, you'll be the last first to know if anything changes." And if she starts asking questions (as I'm afraid she almost certainly will), just hold your hand up and say "no, I really don't want to talk about it" and then remove yourself from the room. I've had to do this a couple of times and it does work.

Good luck

Lottapianos · 02/05/2019 16:48

'Oh for Christ's sake, if you can't talk about babies at a bloody wedding, when can you?'

What on earth do babies have to do with weddings?! Its just as insensitive a place as any other to start nudging and winking about 'when' people might be 'getting on with it'. Jeez

Lottapianos · 02/05/2019 16:50

'when I'd just had a miscarriage. So I told him. Man, his face'

Well done you. Nosy insensitive buggers deserve to be confronted with the truth. There are plenty of examples on this thread of how bloody thoughtless some people still are

SparklesandFlowers · 02/05/2019 16:53

I got married and two months later was pregnant, after a couple of years of trying. Sadly I miscarried at 7 weeks. Two weeks after that, I saw a relative aged about 60 who said something along the lines of "You know what they say, marriage then the children happen". I didn't know how to respond, I was still grieving. I found it completely insensitive and agree, OP, people need to be more sensitive about asking personal questions or making personal comments.

WhatNowRandy · 02/05/2019 16:54

Nevermind pointless, nosy "small talk" - I often get a feeling that my rather honest answer to child-related "small talk" is viewed as almost a faux pas. I've deviated from the "light-hearted" conversation mode with my truthful "no, it just never happened for us". Meh. At least soon I'll be old enough that people should start assuming it's ever going to happen!

WhatNowRandy · 02/05/2019 16:55

^STOP assuming, obviously

Original poster

ChocoCrocc · 02/05/2019 17:00

I wish I could confront people like some of you on here!

I find it really hard to admit what's going on and to talk about it and I shy away from confrontation a lot too so I find it hard pulling people on stuff like this despite not agreeing.

OP posts:

mydogisthebest · 02/05/2019 17:06

I don't agree that people are not trying to be offensive. "You are not normal", "You are not a real woman", "why get married if you don't want children" etc are offensive and no one with even half a brain could think they are not.

All those comments have been made to me by different people over the years. Even a female doctor told me I was not a normal woman if I didn't want children!

CheeseIsEverything · 02/05/2019 17:07

if you can't talk about babies at a bloody wedding, when can you?!

So what is it about weddings that make it such an appropriate place to discuss whether someone will have babies or not?

Is it because you think all married couples are going to go on to have babies? Because that's the kind of thinking the OP is challenging.

toomuchtooold · 02/05/2019 17:11

The thing is, I know not everyone will want to handle things like this but if I'd ended up not having kids I would not have wanted what I perceive as people's pity. I would have found it a lot easier to move forward positively into the rest of my life if I thought people were thinking of me as someone who had deliberately chosen to prioritize career over kids. So when I was going through recurrent miscarriage I found those questions very hard to deal with. I wanted to educate thoughtless people, but that meant admitting that I was trying, and I really didn't want to do that. I think the best answer to those sorts of questions is a head tilt and a "oh I wouldn't ask people questions like that if I were you, imagine how bad you would feel if the person you were talking to was having trouble conceiving?"

CheeseIsEverything · 02/05/2019 17:11

My comment should read Is it because you think all married couples are going to go on to have or want to have babies?

justarandomtricycle · 02/05/2019 17:12

When your boss does this, if they are aware of your circumstances you should nail them to the wall through HR. Totally inappropriate.

People unintentionally offending is people unintentionally offending, they have done absolutely nothing wrong up to the point where you signal to them - "I don't want to talk about children, sorry" or something, then they have a chance to stop it.

Original poster

ChocoCrocc · 02/05/2019 17:14

toomuchtooold this is exactly how I feel.

JustARandom, she doesn't know no. But whether she knows my personal circumstances or not, it doesn't feel like an appropriate thing to say. None of the question in my OP do. People shouldn't have to explain what they are going through to avoid these questions, they shouldn't be asked in the first place.

OP posts:

Kennebunkport · 02/05/2019 17:16

I totally agree that this type of questioning should stop. I also think there is still a lot more work to be done on making infertility/miscarriage less of a taboo topic. This would help people realise how common these issues can be and why they shouldn't ask random questions. Before we started trying for children, I really had no idea about the many problems people can face. When I experienced infertility and then a miscarriage, I didn't say anything to anyone, as is the norm. People would ask about children and I'd give a flippant response. Yes it is private and I shouldn't have to share my personal life details, but by keeping everything quiet it's also not helping the situation.

ForalltheSaints · 02/05/2019 17:19

I recall reading a few years ago something along the lines of 1 in 5 women never having children. Some will be by choice, but many not. The Prime Minister and the First Minister of Scotland, quite possibly.

The OP is being reasonable to ask that there is less intrusion, especially from work colleagues or managers.

Sizeofalentil · 02/05/2019 17:22

I started to reply with "well, I've had two miscarriages already - so your guess is as good as mine". Which, oddly, almost always led to the person apologising and sharing their own stories of pregnancy loss or fertility issues. Which shocked me, as you think they'd know better

FaithInfinity · 02/05/2019 17:37

First of all, for your the loss of your babies. Infertility is honestly the worst thing I’ve ever experienced. It nearly broke us.

I find the way people ask is key - I didn’t mind people saying ‘Do you have kids?/Do you have a family?’. What I hated was the assuming way I was asked. Some of my colleagues were like ‘So when are you starting a family?’ and then the follow up comments like ‘Oh there’s never a good time, get on with it/you’ll never be able to afford it’ etc etc. An answer to everything. It took 2 years 8 months to conceive DD and we thought we might have to have IVF. Now we would like another but it’s unlikely to happen. I find it easier to be blunt now and say We have fertility issues, we are very lucky to have DD. We’d like another but it’s unlikely to happen. Nice people are nice, rude people shut up! People should be more conscious of it but some people are just nosey or rude.

Original poster

ChocoCrocc · 02/05/2019 18:04

What I hated was the assuming way I was asked

Yes it's infuriating isn't it

OP posts:

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