Really upset with daughter

[bojo7]

Probably IABU but I am really seething over this. Background: I am very busy right now and daughter (late twenties) does not help with housework etc. despite not currently working. (I work full-time.)

I was reading a book last week and mentioned to her that it was really good and she could read it when I finished it. I had about 20 pages to go and was really looking forward to finishing it with a glass of wine after a long day. It was nowhere to be found and I realised she had probably taken it with her when she went away for a few days. She came back today and I was correct, but she has lost the book. I am so cross and told her she must buy me another. This is apparently silly and petty as she can easily tell me how it ends...

AIBU?

I would have a conversation with her dad about this and try to get him on board with pushing her to do more and fund herself. The replacement book is non-negotiable though.

*You need to stop enabling her, and to give her notice and timelines of you expect X by Y, which are long enough to get her to save cash to move out or whatever.

DH did this with the two DSD's. One of them stayed with us for a bit and I suspect they thought post uni he would be an ongoing cashpoint for them. He told them he would help 100% with rent for 6 months after graduating and then tailing off to 25% and then 0% by a year, and the same with phone contracts etc on the expectation they'd have found work and housing to support themselves

Before each major change in contributions to them, he gave them fair warning (~2 months) each time there was a change coming up, enabling them (or not) to manage finances appropriately. He also offered to help with CVs etc in the run up in case it helped. *

This sounds like absolute GENIUS.

If you and ex DH could get on board with this, and fund this, it removes the choice of whether to leave home or not, without feeling like you've tipped your adult offspring out onto the street.

But the reality of having to find a way to provide for themselves is crystal clear and time defined.

I'm assuming it's made clear that at the end of that period, one option that is not on the table is moving back in with a parent. . .

You do have to do something drastic, because with her in the late twenties, she's fairly embedded in your lifestyle to which she enjoys being accustomed, and she feels entitled to it. She's not going anywhere soon without making major changes. And at late twenties with no real and significant work history. . . um, it's not just biological clocks that start winding down. . .

Is she into game of thrones? Watch it instantly, tell it to her and tell her that with the time she saved she can clean for a bit, 'as it's just the same'.

DD asked me today if I really wanted the book and I told her I paid for the kindle version. She said she would surprise me with another book, so that is quite a positive interaction for us.

Just want to say thanks to everyone. This has been a bit of a wake-up call for me. I realise now that the situation could carry on indefinitely and I am going to read the family counselling links and speak with her Dad. I do need to postpone this for two months, but I have lots of good ideas to try (and books to read).

Thanks again!

She’s your daughter and obviously you don’t WANT to kick her out but honestly I can’t see how she can just sit home and do nothing all day? So. Baby steps. Start with insisting on the book being replaced. Perhaps next say that you will not be doing her washing/ironing etc. She must do her own. Or perhaps say you will not be making dinner for her. She can make her own OR she can start cooking family meals X number of days a week and share the other days between you and other DCs. My 10 year old DS cooks one meal a week and does his own laundry when asked which was how I was raised and my kids do the same my younger DD6 isn’t as good at it so she “helps” me do her chores. If my 10 year old can do it your 20something can. With each step start pressing for her to pull her weight and remind her that if she doesn’t like your house rules than she is welcome to move out and live however she likes. I paid my parents 1/3 of my wages from the minute I left secondary school even through college as “rent” mainly because my mum wanted to show me that when I moved out a large chunk of my wages would go on bills...a lot more than 1/3 that’s for sure lol. She actually put it all into a savings account and when I moved out she gave it to me to go towards decorating and buying things for my new home which was lovely of her.

How old are the other children? Were you thinking of downsizing when the youngest goes to university/starts work?

The thing is that although this is bad for you, it's also really bad for her. Anything you do will be for her sake as well as yours. It's not a healthy way for her to live and although it's tough you have to not let her just walk off/not answer her door/ignore you. Have a family meeting when everyone's home - invite your ex if you want - but tell her it has to stop and give her a deadline.

I agree with most of the comments on here. You're not doing your DD any favours. So long as she knows you will care for her and she has a guaranteed roof over her head she will put no effort in any aspect of her life, and essentially waste it. Give her an ultimatum that she had to leave in a couple of month's time. But during this time you will help her sort her life out. You will look for jobs with her, and help her apply for them. You will look for properties with her and help budget. You will show her how the washing machine works and how to clean etc. You will constantly motivate her, even if she complains etc. These are skills she needs to thrive in life and maybe she has lost confidence in herself and let things go a bit etc. Help her to grow up and move out for her own happiness.
Lastly, encourage her to do a Myers Briggs personality test and look up suggested careers.
PS hope you get your book back

How old are the other children? Were you thinking of downsizing when the youngest goes to university/starts work?

This occurred to me as well. I'm assuming you won't want to maintain a four-bedroom house as you get older, so where does she think she'd go if/when you downsize? She can't move in with her Dad.

I wonder whether being the eldest with dependent younger siblings, has enabled her to ignore the fact that most 28/29-year-olds are independent, i.e. my siblings are all living at home (when they're not at uni) so why shouldn't I?

Sorry, it doesn't go on forever!

Again, this is not meant unkindly, but you do not seem to expect much resilience in your children (basing this conclusion on your intention to wait until your DS has finished with GCSEs).
Resilience is the ability to get on with life, to create a purpose and carry it out, regardless of circumstances.

It is worth more than umpteen As in GCSEs.

It's a bit late at this point for advice, but I think that allowing a teenager to just focus on studying and letting their hair down is unwise. A parent of teens should be training them to keep all the balls in the air all the time because that is what they will need to do once they fly the coop. They get to practice it during their teen years with the pressure of homework and studying and looming exams in an environment where failure to do so will not result in homelessness or bad credit - at home with a parent paying the bills. Doing chores and maybe holding down a PT job or doing regular babysitting, etc., while still getting homework done and studying are important ways of training them.

I really urge you to consider family therapy - I think you and DD could really benefit.

I feel for you, OP. But if you are not careful, your sons won't put up with any discrimination and you may find you have reduced contact with them as a result of how you, to them, prioritise your DD's feelings. You need to get tough, and have a plan of action - which you follow through on - from the day of youngest DS's last exam.

This is astonishing. In my late 20s I was living alone on the other side of the world! The only time I lived with my parents after the age of 18 they darn well did expect me to contribute money - not a full market rent but enough to cover costs of me being there and to mean I had to work and stand on my own two feet at least a little. And I am so grateful to them for making me independent and capable.

You are not being unreasonable at all regarding the book or anything else OP (it's unbelievably thoughtless and selfish) though I have to say YAB a bit U in indulging her this way. You have really not done her any favors at all, she is essentially an overgrown teenager, and that is being generous, a lot of teenagers at least have Saturday jobs! You need to get a grip of this situation and give her a deadline to leave and in the meantime say she can't stay without a financial contribution of whatever you deem is reasonable. She may not like it, but she will thank you in the end.

So she shuts herself away in her room?

Well I'd be breaking all the usual rules. I'd be throwing her door open and opening the curtains and windows.

I'd be noisily hoovering and doing what I can to make it not a relaxing or quiet space.

If it's a tip I'd be clearing everything into bin bags she could sort out later.

I'd point out that if she was in her own home she could do what she liked.

And I would have a hell of a row with my ex to stop him enabling her at your expense

You could do what my mum did and sell the house and move into sheltered accommodation

(I hasten to add there was no malice involved even though I was "only" 20)

As a mum of 3 girls all similar age YADNBU!
She should not have done that, very rude indeed.
I don’t know why our kids all of a sudden feel entitled to do that, a bit of respect goes a long way.

This wins the prize for the most boring post on Mumsnet! Omg I thought something important had occurred... like really?!!!

I don’t understand why you’re delaying your dds progress because your ds has exams in 2 months?

Have a chat with her at a convenient time and place and tell her that you’re worried about her, what she wants to do with her life and how you can help. Make a deal that she can also help out with the household chores.
I would be very concerned for my child if they were in this situation and would want to help them, not hinder them.

You are literally doing this to yourself. Why even complain about her? You allow her to do this. And if you aren't careful your youngest will end up exactly the same. You don't want him doing chores so he can study. Ok let me tell you out of say 10 hours down time I'll bet he's wanking/playing games/chatting to his mates or girls/watching TV/napping for 9.5 hours. Studying maybe 30 mins. You need to seriously get a reality check on both your kids. You keep saying how do I make her do stuff? Erm how did you ever make her do stuff. You parented her and you give ultimatums and stick to them. I get it you don't want to chuck her out but seriously it's not like you can ground her or takeaway her phone. She needs to understand the reality of adulting. She doesn't have a job so she gets one , or she gets benefits and she pays you, exactly the same as she would have to living alone. If she doesn't you actually kick her out!!!! I'm certain she won't be on the streets, friends or family Inc her dad (he has a sofa right?) Would likely put her up for a bit or worse case scenario the council will house her in a hostel. Hopefully that should be enough for her to come to her senses. Or, of course you can carry on letting her take the piss and treat you like a mug cos I promise you she will

Are you sure there are no MH issues? She is leading quite a chaotic life - nocturnal, off with friends occasionally, sleeping in a sleeping bag, depending on the odd small handout, a history of failure already behind her, avoidance and unhealthy ways of dealing with challenges and stress, and from what I see here there is hostility toward you.

I was wondering the same. OP, some of the behaviours you describe remind me of depressed clients I had when I was a housing support worker.

All my inclinations would be to give her an ultimatum and stick to it: claim benefits and/or get a job, help in the house, contribute to running costs etc or leave. But if she's properly depressed, that could be counter-productive.

You need to set some ground rules and leave her with some jobs to do if she is not working, tbh even if she is working she should till contribute to the housework.
My dd1 17, works thurs sat and sun..mon to thurs shes in college. She keeps her room spotless, cooks food for the younger 2 if need be and puts washing on as and when, she does this off her own back.
Your dd needs to grow up and realise she is no longer a child and help you out.
And she shouldnt be taking your things without first asking.

@MrsBadcrumble123

his wins the prize for the most boring post on Mumsnet! Omg I thought something important had occurred... like really?!!!

You alright hun?

This wins the prize for the most boring post on Mumsnet! Omg I thought something important had occurred... like really?!!!

Not now you’ve posted it doesn’t. 🙄

I would be very concerned and worried about your DD if I was you. She is wasting her life away. Sounds like she is suffering from MH issues like depression and anxiety. It's difficult to consciously recognise this sometimes which is why you need people around you to notice and direct you to help. From your OP she doesn't interact with you much (can't believe she doesn't try to rinse you for money either, my 22 year old does even though she has more disposable income than me!), would she be able to open up to you about her obvious fears and anxieties of growing up and being an adult? Would she see a therapist? Maybe her Dad could contribute to that instead of giving her money?

You need to tell her Dad he's not to give her anymore money and make her sign on for JSA. Change WiFi password until she does, stop cooking for her etc. She'll have to show she's looking for a job then and attend interviews.

I take it she socialises with longstanding friends? What are they doing with their lives? Isn't she embarrassed about her lack of money when she goes out. Most young women her age like shopping for nice clothes, getting nails done, going on holidays, etc but she doesn't have money for any of that. Does she miss any of that?

I sympathise about the book although all is not lost with Kindle. I would have gone batshit (although there's no way I would have left 20 pages!).

Crumbs! She’s your daughter, far more important than any kind of book, be grateful that she’s actually into reading books!

OP I doubt you are ready to change anything. You did not even ask her to replace your book and instead bought yourself a kindle version.

You are enabling this situation. It is not about getting at your DD, but recognising that she is missing out on life. She should be having partners, working, socialising, maybe having kids. So many experiences she is missing out on.

You say you don't want to ruin the possibility of a close relationship with her in the future. You need to recognise that you are putting your needs - to have a close loving relationship with your DD - ahead of what is actually best for your DD.

Please read the books recommended. When you are actually ready to make some changes, come back to MN. People here can give you practical advice about how to change this.