Here or is my friend over reacting?

[reetpetitet]

I've got a problem that I talk a lot with my hands.
My friend shouts at me a lot when I touch her arm in conversation,I don't do it on purpose but she's made such a big deal about it I don't want to go out with her incase I do it again.
An example is we were in a pub on Friday and she said to me "I don't think they sell this particular drink"
" I said I'm sure they do"
The Barman confirmed it so I (without thinking ) touched her arm quickly and said "there you go"
She shouted loudly and aggressively
"Your touching me again"
I was with a few of her other friends (who I didn't know) and I felt so stupid and could have cried.
How do I stop this?

I think your friend was rather restrained! If you'd been tapping me for 20 years and I had asked you several times to stop I would have been a hell of a lot ruder!

Put your hands in your pockets if necessary.
If a man kept touching you when you'd said stop would you be happy?

Men who won't stop being overly touchy feely with a woman who doesn't want them to are (rightly) labelled as inappropriate, sex pests, dirty old men or perverts. Their defense is its harmless, they didn't mean anything by it and they can't help themselves it's just how they are.

It doesn't matter if you're the same sex and whether or not you fancy her or she thinks you fancy her, by saying you can't stop yourself from touching somebody who has clearly told you not to, you're acting like those filthy old men. Stop it. You have no right to touch another human who doesn't want you to.

Can't believe the people justifying your behaviour OP and making out your friend is over reacting. She doesnt like being touched by you. It doesnt matter what the reason is. She doesnt like it and has told you not to do it and you still do. People are entitled to have personal boundaries. Unwanted touching, even a tap on the arm is wrong. And you're in the wrong.

I really don’t like it, it’s quite intrusive and disrespectful esp if you do it all the time

However hugs are fine for hellos and good yes but I find constant touching really meh

Your friend doesn't like you touching her. You know this. You've been friends for 20 years and yet you still touch her - despite her asking you repeatedly not to do it.

I'm not surprised she shouted. I expect she'd reached breaking point.

YABVU.

Do you not understand that your behaviour indicates a real lack of respect for her?

As TeaStory put it:

If you’re as defensive and obstinate with her as you have been here, I’m not surprised she shouted at you.

I wonder if those who think touching people because you “can’t help it” would find it as acceptable if a man “couldn’t help it”

It's also actually something that's taught in psychology - if you touch someone on the arm they're much more likely to notice / remember you. Especially in flirting!

Of course some people don't like to be touched and if they ask you not to then you try to avoid it. But it's not offensive!

Sorry, but psychologists and you absolutely do not get to tell somebody what they do or don't find offensive when it comes to who is or isn't allowed to touch their body.

I realise that this scenario is right at the opposite end of the spectrum, but in principle, this is also what groomers/abusers do - cross boundaries and then react hurt and (ironically) offended when their target object and ask them to stop doing it. They will often go on to tell their targets/victims that they are 'mistaken' to think that they don't want to be touched like that and therefore that they are the one causing the problem and not the perpetrator.

I realise that you aren't deliberately doing it, OP, and I'm most definitely not suggesting in any way that you're an abuser; however, you need to deliberately NOT do it. If you feel that you're being friendly and tactile but somebody else finds what you're doing handsy and unpleasant, this doesn't mean that you need to stop doing it altogether but it DOES mean that you need to stop doing it to them as soon as they have asked you to stop.

'Trying not to' is not enough and it is not their fault if you 'try' but not to the extent that you actually succeed in respecting their explicitly stated boundaries.

I think your friend needs to get over herself. Is she odd or difficult in other ways. I had a friend who was quite self obsessed and she hated being touched. I am no longer friends with her. The not being touched was a bit of a weird control thing.

I don't think is anything wrong with a man or woman touching someone's arm lightly. People need to stop being so uptight!

This has got to be a windup or reverse don't want to get deleted for troll hunting

I think your friend needs to get over herself. Is she odd or difficult in other ways. I had a friend who was quite self obsessed and she hated being touched. I am no longer friends with her. The not being touched was a bit of a weird control thing.

I don't think is anything wrong with a man or woman touching someone's arm lightly. People need to stop being so uptight!

That settles it, then. The opinion of a stranger on the internet about a person's bodily autonomy is of much greater authority than that of the person themselves (the person whose body it actually is). And, just to clarify, wanting others to respect your personal boundaries and bodily autonomy is a weird controlling thing to do.

Of course some people don't like to be touched and if they ask you not to then you try to avoid it. But it's not offensive!
Okay, so when a man 'accidentally' touches your breast or your bum or your thigh and you tell him not to but then he does it again because 'he tried to avoid doing it' and he keeps doing it every time he sees you, would you a, accept it because he's just quirky and all his mates do it too' or b, shout at him?

I had a friend who did exactly that. When talking she'd touch me frequently on the arm. I didn't mind it, and found it quite friendly.
However I know some people hated it and would actively try and avoid being next to her.

If she's asked you to stop then you really need to try and stop.

The friend really shouldn't have aggressively shouted at the OP. That is very rude, childish and can make someone feel embarrassed, which i'm guessing was the "friends" intention. The OP, made a mistake and she admitted to that, she doesn't deserve to be made to feel like shit in public by a so called friend, specially around people who she doesn't know that well. Can't believe the amount of posters that think its OK to treat someone like that!
A simple and quiet "I've mentioned a few times before I really don't like being touched, please could you not do that?" would have been so much better. For those not reading the thread, the OP has said she is trying to not use her hands as much.

I really hate people touching me to emphasise a point, because it’s incredibly rude. There is never any need to physically emphasise a point unless there is an immediate danger.

That said, I also think your friend has been rude. It’s not nice to snap at people and embarrass them.

I wonder if she feels that, having asked you not to, she now needs to get arsey to make her point? I can imagine that if this situation was reversed and someone said ‘how do I stop my friend from tapping me on the arm or nudging me to emphasise what she’s saying? I’ve asked her to stop but she still does it’ then the responses would be along the lines of ‘every time she does it, tell her to stop touching you in a firm voice’. So I can see both sides!

It sounds like you are taking steps to stop yourself doing this, so I think you’re on the right track. With practice, you can break the habit! But in the meantime if she is rude to you, you should feel free to say ‘I’m sorry, I know you don’t like it and I am trying to break the habit, but there is no need for you to be so rude.’

I have a friend who taps me on my arm to make a point, it's rude and not necessary because I'm actually looking at her. Also as the wine is flowing and she drinks more, it's not tapping anymore. She hits me, I've been bruised after an evening with her. I don't sit anywhere near her now. Your friend was rude to shout but perhaps she thinks that you can't hear what she is actually saying.

My friend shouts at me a lot when I touch her arm in conversation,I don't do it on purpose
So you're saying is that you don't notice that you're doing it and it's not something you can consciously control?

It's one thing to do it accidentally/occasionally, but the way you describe it , it looks like you have a habit of touching her almost every time you talk to her.
I'd feel pissed off with the constant 'pawing' too.......and yes, it's different when it's a guy doing it - unless i don't like it in which case he'd be getting told too.

Stop constantly touching her!

Erm... She has asked you to stop. So stop. If you were a bloke doing this then you could be done for assault. Give your head a wobble OP and get a hold of yourself. Imagine she's a stranger, would you touch her then? No. So stop being such an ass about it.

I think you are both being a bit unreasonable. I dont like being touched a lot either it makes me feel very uncomfortable and invaded.... but that said I'd not shout at someone about it (unless they were touching me inappropriately obviously!) Particularly not in public... your friend was being unreasonable to do that.
But you are also being unreasonable to persist in touching her when you know she dislikes it. It doesnt matter what her reasons are you do not have any right to just touch other people if they dont like it.
I know you say you cannot help it but I dont think that's true. If you really cared about her or respected her you wouldn't keep doing it. It is aggressive when it persists for so long.... and so although she was unreasonable to shout at you in public it is kind of understandable that she did.

Just don't stand or sit anywhere next to her in the future. If you are out of touching range, there shouldn't be a problem.

I would grind on a guy in a club (well, pre-DH! don't judge ). I wouldn't like my bum pinched.

I walk arm in arm with my girlfriends, happily squidge up together, curl up with them to watch films.

I hate being tapped by someone talking to me. It's the type of touching that is intensely annoying.

I only tap someone if it's genuinely important I get their immediate attention, and I can't do it by speaking/shouting.

thecats - I think you've just articulated something for me which is that gestures are really different, and that context really matters.

I hate tapping when it's used for emphasis or in a bossy way, even when it's that gentle hand-laid-on-forearm thing. If it's a gesture of comfort, like a mini-hug, I don't mind it.

You know what, I don't think I really articulated it at all, I just wrote about things I was/wasn't comfortable with, but you're right, it's touch as a form of communication I don't like.

Though frankly I find it bizarre that someone can be someone's friend for twenty years and think that their friend thinks they're gay for touching them. But I suppose it goes with the inability to understand that 'no touching' means 'no touching'.