To not want to pay for his children's holiday?

[Sunny47]

I've been with DP for 4 years now, he has 2 children ages 10 and 12 who live a few hours away, I have 3 children who live with us. Later this year I'm planning on paying for a family holiday for most of my family. We haven't all been away together in years so I thought it would be nice. DP mentioned that his children are going to feel left out and then ended up suggesting I pay for them to come too. He earns a lot less than me and wouldn't be able to afford to pay for them himself but the amount I'm already going to be paying is a lot and I don't know his children all that well. I see them a few times a year, the rest of my family have only met them a few times. They're lovely kids but I don't think I should be expected to pay for them

Pyong yes but how often would be realistic? What if you worked full time and weekends or had commitments such as elderly parents to care for? We don't know the reasons behind the OP's DP restricting visits to once a month. I honestly think for 100+ miles (probably closer to 150) that once a month is reasonable and fair.

Perhaps you could suggest that he starts a holiday savings account for the future for his children
Or he could take them out for some days out instead
I agree that they are not your children, so not your responsibility

How many people are you paying for on this holiday and what's the differential between you and your DPs income?

If you a millionaire and are paying for 15 people in your extended family to go to Maui for a fortnight and your DP is your ex pool cleaner working on minimum wage then I think you should pay to include his children.

If you are on an average wage, your DP is on a bit less and you are paying for your Mum to go on a Haven holiday with you for a weekend then he should pay for his children.

Assuming you're actually on quite a good wage then why didn't you discuss with your DP what you were planning to do. Is it really more important to e.g. pay for your sister's boyfriend than for your stepchildren? Or could you taylor the holiday to your DPs income so he can afford to pay for his kids.

Does he act like a father figure towards your kids OP? He must Soto some extent as you all live together. How old are yours?
I think it would be very weird for a 10 and 12 year old to be in an environment where they see their absent Dad being fatherly to other children. Not sure that would be a fun holiday at all.

Is this holiday to somewhere very child- centred, like Florida or something?

Is it really more important to e.g. pay for your sister's boyfriend than for your stepchildren?

but maybe she sees her sister and her boyfriend every weekend, perhaps they come round for tea once a week.

OP doesn't have a relationship with these children. They are not her step children (and I don't believe that's just because they're not married, but she doesn't see them, doesn't know them!)

@GunpowderGelatine I think EOW for a local parent is piss poor, though I agree it’s not abandonment.

For me, EOW means you’re just about in a child’s day to day life - you’re never too many days away from something that just happened, or something coming up. Once a month... and you’re potentially a bit part, at that age.

My child sees a stepgrandparent EOW usually and it feels like a nice regular relationship. Recently it has had to be once a month - and there’s definitely been a shift in closeness. She’s less interested in going, has less to say - he’s just not part of her routine any more. Anecdote of one I know, for just by way of example.

The devil is in the detail, of course. The WHY he doesn’t go more, how often he actually goes, how long he’s there when he does, what the contact is in between.

OP said he goes “about once a month”. That could be every 4 weekends which is just slightly more frequent. But also, it could mean he’s slack and goes whenever but it’s usually about every month (reality: sometimes 5 or 6 weeks if he can’t be bothered?)

And did his ex move away to an area with no jobs?
Or did he move away cos he fancied cocklodging with OP?
That makes a difference in how I judge him.

Is he travelling Fri and getting 3 full evenings, 2 nights, 2 long days with them?
Or is he wandering up when he feels like it on a Sat, pissing off at 14:00 on Sunday, and as he’s staying with a mate not even having them overnight?

I can’t see OP returning, let alone answering that, but I’d love to know.

But she’s the one who used words like not “bothered” to take them on holiday, she’s the one who has already told him he should see them more. So that’s why I’m erring on the side of deadbeat.

You can be an AMAZING forces dad and go away for 9 months at a time. I know that circumstances aren’t always easy. Weekend working doesn’t help - though as I said above, you can try to look for other work, and I don’t know any single mothers with sole charge who haven’t fitted their work around children to a degree.

But she only said they’re “a few hours” apart. What reasonable? To me, with no special circumstances, there is no reason not to add one long day for him to have an extra weekend day, or if working weekends, an extra weekday evening once a month.
I think a reasonable MINIMUM is one (full!) weekend a month, and one extra day or evening a month, to make it fortnightly contact.

To turn it round - how long would you be happy to not see your child? Because I sure as fuck wouldn’t shrug and say “about once a month would do it”.

You know if you did pay for them, he would want everyone to think that HE was paying for them, and you would be made to feel guilty for having the higher earning capacity and "making him feel bad" because he's had to come to you to pay for it. You'd have to keep it all secret, and everyone would congratulate him for being an awesome human being - and he'd believe it. You'd never see the money again and you'd be resentful the whole damn time you are away.

Does he act like a father figure towards your kids OP? He must Soto some extent as you all live together that's rather a large assumption.

I think EOW for a local parent is piss poor that's what courts generally order, or EOW and one night during the week. Its pretty standard so to call it piss poor when its what people actually get awarded in court, and therefore forced into is actually really judgemental and unfair.

Gunpowder

The OP said that she has spoken to him about seeing them more but he doesnt. That suggests that there is nothing stopping him seeing them more often other than himself, he cant be bothered.

Yeah. If he’s not making the effort with his children then he should be the one taking ALL of the blame, not the OP.

The op isn’t paying for her dp’s children and good for her standing her ground. I think there are bigger issues to address first such as his lack of contact with his children.

He should be staying at home while the op has a fabulous holiday with her children and her family. He should be spending that time having some quality time with his children, not swanning off on holiday and expecting his partner to pay for a holiday for them!

Much much different if the op had a close relationship with her dp’s children.
I wouldn’t want to pay for some children to go on holiday who I hardly see either.

PlantPotParrot it can’t be realistic to expect that an adult in a house won’t interact with kids who live there. He probably watches them now and again when OP is out. Even if he just passes them the ketchup and makes them a drink every now and again that’s more daily domestic fathering than his own kids are getting from him.

If my partner spoke about my DD the way you speak about your stepchildren I would be leaving him. YA definitely BU!

it can’t be realistic to expect that an adult in a house won’t interact with kids who live there

it can, just because he is there doesn't mean he parents them, supports them, puts anything toward them financially or even likes them.

We don't know what he does. We cant assume he watched them at all. And even if he does, that's his prerogative. Him being a parent to ops kids and not his own kids through choice is nothing to do with OP.

How many people are you paying for on this holiday and what's the differential between you and your DPs income?

This...come on OP, can you answer some questions otherwise this will go around in circles?!

If my partner spoke about my DD the way you speak about your stepchildren I would be leaving him

what has the op said that was derogatory towards the children?

@PlantPotParrot I’ve nodded in agreement with most of your posts on this thread, but I’ll just have to have it on the chin that you think I’m judgmental and unfair.

Just because courts order something doesn’t mean it’s great.

I do think that EOW for a local parent is piss poor. To see your own kids only once a fortnight? Would you be happy with that, personally?

You mention EOW + a midweek being common too. Now that, I see as the standard minimum for local parents - and actually it’s the pattern I know most among friends. And I think it’s good - it keeps a weekly contact.

I’m divorced btw, so I do have 8 years experience from 6yo to 14yo of balancing time for everyone!

If you work miles away, have funny shifts, or aren’t local, then I definitely believe that EOW can be fine. Kids understand constraints like that, and Skype is awesome!

But if you don’t have special circumstances then I stand by what I said - EOW for local parents is piss poor. I wouldn’t want to go 2 weeks between seeing my kids - and neither would my ex. So we don’t.

Depends on the cost. I am the higher earner, we have one DC between us and DP has a daughter from a former relationship who lives with her Mum.

We usually go self catering in Spain or Portugal. I pay for the apartment and mine and DC flights. DP pays for him and DSDs flights. We book in advance and get cheap Ryan Air flights.

As the higher earner are you paying more day to costs such as mortgage, bills and food? I do and it frees up more of DPs money to spend on DSD. I’m aware of this and it is what I signed up to. We see DSD twice a week and she is part of the family. We go on quite cheap holidays though, no point taking my DC anywhere expensive as too young. Plus I have to think about what DP can afford. I have family in Australia and would like to take my DC to visit when older. DP and DSD May well not come on that holiday due to cost. I wouldn’t be able to afford to pay for them both.

Just because courts order something doesn’t mean it’s great
no, I know and I personally don't think it's that fair, either. I just mean that's all a lot of people get even after going through court for years in some cases, and your comment was just a little judgy and made it sound like you just thought the CBA with their kids more than that which in a lot of cases, simply isn't true.

I agree EOW and one day in the week being better.

I wouldn't want to go that long without seeing my kids either, but unfortunately for some parents and children, that is the court ordered reality.

I don’t think you are BU. Will the children really feel left out given that they presumably barely know you or your own kids as they hardly see them?

They’re his kids and his responsibility to pay for things for not yours. There was a thread last week where the OP got her arse handed to her on a plate for expecting her kids father’s girlfriend to contribute towards the costs of raising their child so not sure why you’re getting pelters for your stance here.

Your partner sounds like a freeloader however.

Unless there’s very, very good reason why he couldn’t afford to pay (disability/long term illness) and you’ve agreed to support him, then no, you should feel no pressure.

Tell him to get off his butt and fund his own children’s holidays. You aren’t the magic money tree.

OK, I get what you’re saying!
I suppose because I dealt with child arrangements directly with my XH, I don’t default to thinking about what people have been court ordered to do. In fact, ALL of my divorced friends have made their own arrangements.

If a random person told me they saw their (local) kids EOW, I would judge immediately - but my ears would prick up.

Come to think of it, I actually have been in this situation as I did online dating for a while, and had some “when do you see them?” conversations - general interest, sussing out shit dads, and working out when free to date!

If someone wanted a midweek, but court said otherwise - or they said they stuck to EOW because of late shifts, I wouldn’t judge that. I dated an Army Major who was absent loads - but when back, had very limited dating time because he and his XW (and son!) agreed he’d have 6 nights a week.

But if someone had no court involvement, no other issue - just CHOSE that EOW was enough? Yeah - I’ll judge that. Just as (in the absence of the OP returning with details, and her use of words like ‘bothered’, I’m judging her boyfriend for the ‘about’ once a month!)

We don't know what he does. We cant assume he watched them at all. And even if he does, that's his prerogative. Him being a parent to ops kids and not his own kids through choice is nothing to do with OP.

I think you’re missing my point PlantPotParrot. The 10 and 12 year old don’t know the ins and outs of the relationship between their father and OPs kids but they do know he lives with them and so there will inevitably be a familiarity between him and OPs kids on holiday- they’ll talk about “home” referring to the same place, he’ll go home with them at the end of the trip etc. That sounds like it would be quite tough for his own kids to witness for a solid one or 2 week period. Presumably why he goes to them rather than has them to his and OP’s house for contact.

I am just saying that this holiday might not be the fun for his kids that he seems to think it would be.

• wouldn’t judge immediately

In all other areas, except money, on Mumsnet you will be told they have two parents already and to keep out of decision making.

They have two parents, you have three kids. You're aren't married so you're not their Step Mother.

This is their parents responsibility, not yours.