To get cross every time I see a woman say her husband doesn't do any night feeds because "he works"?

[TeenTitans]

I'm in a few mum groups online and I keep seeing this and it's driving me mad. Women who's husband's never do any night feeds because they work and women who think that's perfectly okay. Erm do you not think looking after the kids all day is work? My response is always "so do you!" when I see it. My partner has always helped with the nights because they're his kids as well and it's just as much his job as mine.

I'm not complaining about couples divvying up the work as they wish but the justification. YOU ALSO WORK.

Love isn't caffeine or methylphenidate, sadly.

It is oxytocin though, and that's some powerful shit! I literally used to trip when I first started breastfeeding the rush was so strong. And it is adrenaline - my DP was astounded by how I would go from completely asleep to fully awake, up and out of the room when our baby cried (once she moved to her own room, before that she was in bed with us so barely had to wake to feed, he never noticed).

Biology does give you an assist if you let it; but for good or ill the world we've built is not conducive to the easy rearing of infants. Check out the gorilla mums, they don't look knackered or busy!

I literally used to trip when I first started breastfeeding the rush was so strong.

Despite your assertions about how educated you are I'm not sure you know the meaning of "literally"

@Dungeondragon15

Visual hallucinations and euphoria - ok maybe not literally but it was like a very condensed version of the times I took mushrooms. And a good thing too given how knackered my nipples were at first, kept me in the game!

@PissedOffProf

Feel free not to engage with me, although I don't see how I was being ridiculous... perhaps a little playful?

If a poster has a specific reason for doing all the night wakening e.g. their DH is a pilot then they should give that reason rather than stating in general that may work shouldn't have to get up in the night

Has anybody done that though? The OP wasn’t discussing a group of friends. I don’t think anybody has suggested in general men shouldn’t do night shifts when they work, more that if it works for the family, why on earth would it irritate!

He works evenings so this worked for us when the kids were networks, we both got good night's sleep

Well there you go then. How nice for you. You can get down of your high horse now.

I did night feeds because I was quicker and better at them. I could also sleep and sit on my arse if I was knackered. Dh was/is crunching numbers trying to sort out people’s debts for them. You need to wide awake when your pouring through people’s financial affairs.

I took my lie ins at weekend

It never caused any resent

'I don't understand how some women are happy to have permanent broken sleep for months on end.'

Because as has been said repeatedly if you're at home you can have a quick snooze when the dc does. Not so easy when in the office or wherever doing 12 hours shifts. If a sleep deprived parent clumsily spills their tea at home it doesn't matter.

If you have a job you have to be efficient and on the ball.

So, to those of you who don’t think staying at home with the kids is ‘work’, do you not think nannies and childminders have a valid career? As looking after kids is basically slobbing around in pyjamas.

And it is adrenaline - my DP was astounded by how I would go from completely asleep to fully awake, up and out of the room when our baby cried

Same here. Weird isn’t it. Dh used to say I sat up like a robot much better than him bumbling about bashing in to every thing and waking the house up!

I don’t think anybody has suggested in general men shouldn’t do night shifts when they work, more that if it works for the family, why on earth would it irritate!

That is exactly the implication if you state that you do all the night wakenings is because DH works and because of that he needs an unbroken nights sleep. As most people work this suggests other men shouldn't have to get up in the night either.

So, to those of you who don’t think staying at home with the kids is ‘work’, do you not think nannies and childminders have a valid career? As looking after kids is basically slobbing around in pyjamas.

Specifically looking after your own kids i said. No boss, no assessment, no schedule but the one you and your child make yourselves, no qualifications required... completely different to becoming a nanny or nursery worker. Like helping your spouse grieve a dead parent is not the same 'work' as being a counsellor.

YABU

@Tightarsed

Same here. Weird isn’t it. Dh used to say I sat up like a robot grin much better than him bumbling about bashing in to every thing and waking the house up!

Only let me down once when we'd just moved house - leapt up, went into the corridor and almost fell down the stairs that hadn't been there in the last place!!! Good reminder that it was time to buy a stair gate though

@Namestheyareachangin
As a SAHM myself, unsuprisingly I don't think that equality looks like men and women doing exactly the same in the same proportions. I'm not arguing that.

What I will argue though it that the activities undertaken in the course of looking after a child are "work". It sounds like you find this work fulfilling and enjoyable and therefore you see it differently than the work you carry out in your paid employment. That's fine, but finding work fulfilling and satisfying does not change its definition. Plenty of people love their paid employment and actively enjoy going to work but this doesn't mean that it can no longer be defined as work. Lots of people will form strong bonds with their colleagues or clients but again that doesn't change the definition.

I find it annoying that the only type of work that people seem to want to declassify and therefore inevitably devalue is the sort that is typically carried out by women in the home. If we view time spent caring for children as a "privilege" and not as the hard work it actually is then this has repercussions on how women's effort and time is valued when we are carrying out the important work involved with bringing up children.

So, to those of you who don’t think staying at home with the kids is ‘work’, do you not think nannies and childminders have a valid career? As looking after kids is basically slobbing around in pyjamas

It’s not comparable though is it? Realistically looking after a child for a professional role, and looking after your own don’t really have the same requirements.

Namestheyareachangin right, so if I tell you that being the stay at home parent was the hardest thing I have ever done, the hardest work I have ever done, and if my husband hadn’t helped at night I don’t know if I would have coped, is that a valid experience? Because I feel like I am being told I am lying. Yet this is the experience of many women I know but STILL our health and well-being seems secondary to the person who works in a paid job.

That is exactly the implication if you state that you do all the night wakenings is because DH works and because of that he needs an unbroken nights sleep. As most people work this suggests other men shouldn't have to get up in the night either

So again we get back to not wanting to have a discussion in case the reality offends.

If you took “I get up in the night because MY DH needs an unbroken night” and extrapolate it out, that’s your problem not mine!

Just to add - my previous post meant for ME it isn’t comparable.

Being on maternity leave/SAHM was the easiest part of my life so far, therefore not comparable to a job. I acknowledge for others it’s much harder - which is also valid.

@BarbadosBrenda
Because as has been said repeatedly if you're at home you can have a quick snooze when the dc does
Except when your baby doesn't nap or needs parental assistance to sleep. I have never napped when my babies were napping so this isn't an option for everyone.

If a sleep deprived parent clumsily spills their tea at home it doesn't matter
Unless it's over themselves or their infant of course. You may have to be efficient and on the ball when working but the consequences can be far worse if you fail to supervise your toddler properly or fall asleep when feeding a tiny baby.

It’s not comparable though is it? Realistically looking after a child for a professional role, and looking after your own don’t really have the same requirements.
You’re right, because a nanny or childminder gets time off

'So, to those of you who don’t think staying at home with the kids is ‘work’, do you not think nannies and childminders have a valid career? '

They can't lie on the settee all day in their pjs if they've been up during the night though can they, so not remotely comparable.

It is a hard slog but there doesn't tend to be targets etc it isn't so much an issue if bleary eyed.

Of course you then get a lie in at the weekend.

They can't lie on the settee all day in their pjs if they've been up during the night though can they, so not remotely comparable.

Oh for fucks sake, I don’t think I have ever been able to lie on the settee all day in my pyjamas! Who are the lucky parents who get to do this??

You’re right, because a nanny or childminder gets time off

Indeed. As did I.

Oh for fucks sake, I don’t think I have ever been able to lie on the settee all day in my pyjamas! Who are the lucky parents who get to do this?

I did. I had one kid who was a doddle. Doesn’t mean other people don’t have it hard. Doesn’t mean my experience wasn’t valid.

53rdway yes, I’m saying that whatever someone’s job is, for example stacking shelves, it’s important to be well rested enough you don’t show up looking like shit and making silly mistakes/nodding off upright on the tills. Having done plenty of NMW low status jobs if anything you’re more scrutinised by managers on a power trip and easily replaceable. Wouldn’t matter to me whether OH was a surgeon or a binman, if I was on mat leave I would do the vast majority of night feeds as I can then grab naps, lay around expending as little energy as possible (rather than chasing round doing housework) the following day if necessary. At work you can’t just go off for a nap.

I guess I see it as a bigger picture issue, it’s crucial for the well-being of the entire family not to put at risk the working partner’s income.

Sorry, forgot who asked, but yes sadly I have been through months on end of very little broken sleep caring for a terminally ill relative and I know the exhaustion. But I could still have a five min micronap head down on the kitchen table, a hit of caffeine and then be able to keep going a bit longer. In contrast I’ve also experienced what it’s like to fall asleep driving and it’s terrifying.

Being at work out and about where people are expecting certain things of you, someone has authority over you and can discipline you, you can be sacked etc. and you have to keep that job to pay the rent is different to being utterly bone crushingly exhausted where the next day you don’t have to get dressed or leave the house and nobody can sack you and your income isn’t at risk. It just is.

I fully accept that perhaps when our baby arrives maybe I’ll throw it all out of the window and insist OH does the night feeds if I’m too shattered, but I know he would then have to call in sick the next day as he wouldn’t be safe to work and you can only do that so many times before trouble starts.

I just think being able to be at home, away from your paid job for a while able to care for your child and having enough money to do so is a privilege, especially compared to absolute shit shows like America where many women are back at work after a month if they’re lucky. In that situation with both parents working both need to take turns to share the burden and have no choice but to middle through. But if one of you is able to be at home and the other has paid work to get up and attend the following day it seems madness to insist they’re the one to do more than the occasional night feed, the alarm goes off at 7am and they have no choice but to get up and out whereas you can sleep while the baby sleeps or whenever you get chance round the clock.