To wonder what happens when your boyfriend asks your father for your hand...

[PumpkinLatteMyArse]

And then he says no?

Do adults just not get married then?

Saying women who like tradition just want to feel loved is very mean and unnecessarily insulting. So according to some ppr on this thread if a woman happens to like romance and would love her boyfriend to be the one that proposes because you know, it can be very sweet, romantic and a great way for him to show his love through a meaningful act, then something must be wrong with her? sorry if i got that wrong but its certainly what it sounds like people are saying

There was a couple in school everyone was rooting to have get married and hyphenate their names:
Donna Hiscock & Jimmy Mycock

GreytExpectations I dont think that's what's been said.

The poster that talked about it, was referring to the threads here where the women are desperate for the big proposal, despite the man not being interested. If you read those threads, it's usually the case. The man has no interest in being married and its damaging the woman's self esteem.

It is odd for people to make a big production out of a proposal, pretend it's a surprise. I mean, surely no one actually proposes before having a discussion of some sort with their partner.

It showed courtesy to my DW as she loved and respected her parents and wanted them to be happy with who she was marrying, but we would have gotten married irrespective as we were and are deeply in love. We merely asked if they would be happy with the union (their blessing).
I open doors, go first through a revolving door, hold her chair, etc - NOT as a means of control but as a show of respect and she knows that is my intent.

The practice is based on the historical notion that a woman is property and that ownership is being passed from one man to another. It's offensive and just one of the ways that so-called traditions support societal notions that men have a right to control women

This.

All those declaring that it’s sweet and nice and kinda fun - did any of you ask your husband’s father for his permission to marry his son ?

No, I thought not. So sad that you don’t respect his father, you evil joy suckers .

My Dh didn't ask my dad's permission to marry me, because he knows I make my own decisions and I hadn't lived with my dad for over 15 years at that point. Plus we had been living together for 8 years and had a 6yo DD.

We didn't follow any of the other patriarchal traditions to do with weddings either. We walked into the ceremony together, there was no "walking the bride down the aisle", I wore a red dress (apparently that means I've been around a bit, possibly accurate), I kept my own name (it is the same name as my mum and dad, definitely mine though, it was given to me at birth), nobody gave anyone away and nobody is obeying anyone either. Oh and my kids didn't automatically inherit their fathers name either, dd1 has my surname (her father wasn't on the scene by the time she was born), dd2 has both names double barreled.

” @flowery* and @theBulb you seem to not realise my examples were purposely over the top and obviously i dont expect everyone to change their names for a brand new one.”

Well yes, obviously you were exaggerating. By following up on it, I was making the point that if you need to go way over the top to make a point, it undermines the validity of that point.

Being given a name by someone at birth, living with it all your life and not taking the earliest opportunity to pick a different one yourself does not in any way equate to making an informed adult choice to actively change your name to take your husband’s when you get married.

@flowery *Why wouldn’t I keep it? It wasn’t my choice, it’s the name I was given. Whether to take another man’s name as an adult is my choice though.

You really think everyone should choose their own name? I should just flick the pages of the phone book and plonk my finger down and go with that? Just because I didn’t get to choose what name I got given at birth*

It is your choice though, although you had that name forced on you, you can easily change your surname to your mothers name or double barrel it if you felt so strongly about taking another mans name?

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't think you would just choose a random name !!!

but we would have gotten married irrespective as we were and are deeply in love.

So it's a pointless discussion to have. That in itself, asking for an opinion when you will ignore it, if you dint get the answer you want is pretty disrespectful and pointless. To me anyway

If my dp asked my dads opinion on anything, then went 'well he didnt tell me what wanted to hear so fuck it I will do it my way anyway' I would be baffled and annoyed at him. What's the point in asking in the first place.

Why could your wife have that converstation with her parents, to check they were happy. And again, I doubt she would have not married you if they werent. So again, a pointless conversation.

If I was a parent and asked (aside from the sexist element) and I said I didnt think it was the right thing at that time, and my daughters partner ignored it anyway. I would be annoyed, more annpyed than if she was marry g someone I had concerns about. The partner would ha e been attempting to put me in a position where I was expected to not actually give my opinion but only the answer he wanted.

I was 34 when I got married and living with my partner. No one proposed we just decided to get married. No one walked me down the aisle. I got married in a registry office and we each had a witness - mine was my best friend. But we had 100 guests and a great fun reception where my father made a speech, my husband did, the best man did and I did too.

I wasn't in need of any of those outmoded decisions or escorts I was a grown adult deciding to marry my partner. My farther was not offended he knows I am an independent person.

Some people like traditions - but I presume the groom doesn't ask questions he doesn't think will be affirmed when it comes to marriage. It's all a bit outmoded in my mind and like many will die out because it's no longer relevant. It's used to be traditional for a man to run round the car to open the door for a woman! Hopefully when it does die out it will indicate that women are finally treated equally to men.

To answer your question without a pile of sarcasm and ranting about 'the patriarchy' (because I can actually read the question!)

I guess it would all relate to finances. At a time where this was common place - it was always much more so amongst the wealthy/aristocracy. However females of most households WERE considered to be the fathers 'property' regardless of class. Females had a use in the home. They cooked and cleaned and kept house so the head of the household would not take kindly to them skipping off without permission. --- move on a few hundred years and what was once a financial decision (the wife -to-be perhaps had land and inheritance and the father would not want that to become property of a wastrel )- and you are left with a 'tradition' that no longer fits with today's financial situations and female independence.

So whilst a boyfriend might think it 'the right thing' to do purely by misguided tradition. A refusal would have less of an impact as most young woman have their own earned income and are not reliant on their fathers permission (and therefore money) to do as they please.So presumably would ignore it.
There is of course the depth of feeling involved. Coercion, patriarchal cultures, bullying, blackmail, genuine fear that this is the wrong person.
If the father is deeply opposed and the woman cannot face estrangement from the father then I guess she makes that choice. Just as anyone planning to marry someone their parents dislike does. Regardless of the bf asking 'for her hand'.

I mean, surely no one actually proposes before having a discussion of some sort with their partner

Of course. My dh proposed but we both knew that we wanted to get married so the logistics of proposal and when he did it was a suprise but the act wasnt. I loved it and it was romantic and special. I fully now expect to be called sexist and misogynistic for that but there are some right miserable women on here.
And sadly, it comes across on here that women arent allowed to like romance and tradition and also be feminist which is bullshit as the point is its our choice, not something being forced on us.

@flowery when I say you, I mean people who think as you posted about taking a mans name. Not just you personally, i understand your situation was years ago and you just went with the norm.

So it's a pointless discussion to have. That in itself, asking for an opinion when you will ignore it, if you dint get the answer you want is pretty disrespectful and pointless
So you've never discussed something where the other person may have a different feeling then you? Sounds a pointless way to live ones life to me but heyho.

My dad brought me up to be a strong independent woman. He was proud of me and who I was.

My dad would have been disappointed if I thought it was acceptable for a man to ask his permission to make one of the biggest decisions of my life.

My dad wanted a strong daughter who could look after herself not some pathetic excuse who needs to be told what to do.

My DH didn't ask, but he did tell my parents what he was planning. My DF said I'm glad you didn't ask, it's her choice and she hasn't listened to anything I've told her to do or not do since she was about five anyway! DH thought this was amusing.

Adults who want to get married, get married

GreytExpectations to be fair I have read the thread. It seems you dont like people disagreeing.

But yes, I find big pretend surprise proposals odd.

I also think alot if the 'traditions' and need for romance around weddings, make people forget that it's more about a legally binding contract.

In fact on mn I have seen several posters Express their shame that marriage is being reduced 'to just a legally binding contract' totally ignoring the fact that, that's the main part. Reducing marriage to a big romantic gesture doesnt help women at all.

The need for romance and a good story, seems to, for some people over taken the fact that it's not just a piece of paper and a lovely day.

My husband asked my father on the nighttime after he'd proposed during the day...it's my choice not his, it was for his blessing not whether or not I actually could marry him.
Good job my papa said yes mind as had to tell him the next day that I'd also said yes before we even had his blessing

Sure, I’m a “ right miserable “ person because the kind of romance and “ specialness” I like doesn’t involve the idea that women are owned by men .

And you are allowed to like what you want. But that doesn’t mean that everyone will agree with you ( sorry if you find that painful ) . Or that no one will call you out on the implications of your choice.

”Sorry for the confusion, I didn't think you would just choose a random name !!!”

@Tigger001 I never thought you did think that. You’ve quoted a post of mine which was a direct response to the points someone else was making. I didn’t say any of the things you’ve quoted in response to you.

So you've never discussed something where the other person may have a different feeling then you? Sounds a pointless way to live ones life to me but heyho.

That's clearly not what I said.

I have never had a conversation that goes, 'i want you to do this and it's important to me and dp, and respectful to have you blessing/permission before i do'

The show huge disrespect by saying 'no, I don't have your permission/blessing? Well, I am doing anyway. Your point of view wasnt important. I was just saying it because of respect'

Its ridiculous.

My dad brought me up to be a strong independent woman. He was proud of me and who I was

Mine too Windows, and my mum. My dad is dying of cancer now so I told him recently how grateful I am to him for how he raised me.

The show huge disrespect by saying 'no, I don't have your permission/blessing? Well, I am doing anyway. Your point of view wasnt important. I was just saying it because of respect
What a ludicrous interpretation!

Travellers have to be asked for twice. The first time they ask if they can have their daughter as a girlfriend, then when the time comes they must ask again if they can have her as a wife.

What a ludicrous interpretation!

Anymore ludicrous than assuming I dint ask others opinions?

If you ask for permission or blessing, fully expecting to ignore it if you dont get the answer you want, then the above is correct.

This I why I dont see the point. Event away from the sexist element.

It's not respectful to the woman or her family