To wonder what happens when your boyfriend asks your father for your hand...

[PumpkinLatteMyArse]

And then he says no?

Do adults just not get married then?

This thread made me think of this!
“”Come here, child,” cried her father as she appeared. “I have sent for you on an affair of importance. I understand that Mr. Collins has made you an offer of marriage. Is it true?” Elizabeth replied that it was. “Very well—and this offer of marriage you have refused?”
“I have, sir.”
“Very well. We now come to the point. Your mother insists upon your accepting it. Is it not so, Mrs. Bennet?”
“Yes, or I will never see her again.”
“An unhappy alternative is before you, Elizabeth. From this day you must be a stranger to one of your parents. Your mother will never see you again if you do not marry Mr. Collins, and I will never see you again if you do.””

It doesn’t really matter to me whether DH did this because he was following tradition or not. Why does it have to be justified as “meaningful” for c reason or “tradition”. Why all the hoo haa? If you don’t want to do it, then don’t. If you don’t get it, we’ll that’s fine by me. Not everything traditional is bad; not everything non-traditional is perfect either.

You keep harping on about its a pointless question and frankly I have no idea why a legitimate question is pointless irrespective of the reply.

Hello Mr and Mrs XXXXX. I love your daughter very much and I plan to ask her to marry me. I would very much like your blessing on our decision should she say yes, would you be so inclined? If they say yes we have their blessing and get married, if they say no we don't have their blessing but we still get married, and I've had a chance to discuss any misgivings they may have. I cannot fathom how that is disrespectful and pointless like Putthatlampshadeonyourhead keeps saying.

THE- so who deals with any misgivings the groom’s parents might have?
The enthusiasm for this tradition is
particularly baffling on a forum where a parent in law “looking at me in a funny way”* is usually considered a cue for never visiting again!

*for those old enough to remember Not The Nine O’Clock News..

Some women on MN are up in arms about the concept of being proposed to at all. They even get offended at the idea of having to wear a ring! Well, each to their own but, life is too short in my view.

I genuinely had no idea before coming in MN that some married couples think it’s the height of equality to have separate finances. So the DH says, “Well I’ll pay £x and you have to pay £x and we have to pay percentages of this and that to be “fair” and “equal.” Again, I couldn’t be bothered with any of this personally and I wouldn’t want to live like that myself. Yet apparently people do, in which case I don’t need them to justify it because each to their own.

Even Mr. Collins went to Lizzy first. If memory serves, Darcy didn't go to her father before his two proposals to her, either. It seems some of us are behind even early 19th century practice with this asking the father before proposing to the woman.

“Some women on MN are up in arms about the concept of being proposed to at all”

That’s a new one on me-which thread is that on?

THE- so who deals with any misgivings the groom’s parents might have?
Different question and up to the couple, no one said it couldn't be done and I find it weird that that isn't what Putthatlampshadeonyourhead is trying to promote (equality) rather than saying any discussion is disrespectful and pointless?
In my case my DW did discuss with my parents but that is a whole different story!

Bertrand - you must have seen the comments by posters who say that proposing is an outdated concept stemming from the patriarchy. Why should a woman be hanging around waiting for him to propose etc etc? Why not do it yourself - what’s wrong with you? Or they recommend people should have a kind of mini business meeting about the pros and cons.

Sorry- I thought you said people were offended by the idea of marriage and proposals- not that they, like me, don’t agree with one and think it’s daft on many levels to wait around for the other.

Sorry again, you said up in arms, not offended. The rest of my post applies.

I'm still waiting for my question to be answered, how does me as a WOMAN, telling my partner that if he was to propose to me I expect him to ask for my grandfather's blessing, have major consequences for all other women in the world?!

And all you keep saying is you haven't had a good enough reason for this to still be happening in today's world..

I gave one ages ago, but you are picking and choosing little parts of people's posts. To justify you being the only women that are right!

I will say it again!

I love my grandfather dearly, I have the most respect to him.
At his age to take my sister and I under his wing and raise us by himself, teaching us to be independent women, never rely on anybody in life, study hard, have self respect, love yourself because we are amazing, be financially independent always, treat everybody the same, we have a voice so use it..he didn't have to raise us and his life to be completely put on hold for many many years!!

The least he deserves is to be part of my life, seeing me progress, sharing the highs with me after all his hard work.

He would be over the moon to be part of a massive point in my life. I know him keeping the secret until the engagement happened, would bring him so much excitement and joy! And that first time I see him after, he would be so happy being part of it all.
Now as an adult, I have my own life and family, I want to include him in as many things in my life I possibly can. That is the very least he deserves from me.

What the hell is wrong with that?!

Couldn’t you go together to ask his blessing? I’m not married or engaged, but when we became a couple we went to see DP’s then very elderly great grandparents to tell them.

It’s the idea of men making plans for women in their absence. And the idea that a father will know before the woman being proposed to that so wrong. And it goes against everything else Mumsnet thinks about in laws.

I definitely missed where any poster said ‘men get together to make plans without the lady in question!

But I like surprises..I want to be surprised. I don't want to know when it's going to happen!

Like I said upthread when my partner and I started dating, I had a few conversations with my grandfather about my partner..he has always been right on everything in life, so I value his opinion highly! He has met a few horrors over the years, and told me it wouldn't work, and they were not good enough for me..they ended disastrously!

On meeting my now partner, in our conversations (I tell him everything) he told me, he did think he was right, somebody that did deserve to be with me. So far he has been right again!

So I know his opinion already on my partner. I don't need to be there, for them to plan how the engagement is going to happen! It would be so exciting for my grandfather to be involved, he would love it! And that's what I want!

I have said this all up thread! so this proves you are just picking and choosing what you want to read. If you are going to debate something, you need to read the full thread first, before voicing your opinion.

I for one have read the thread. Two men planning how one is going to become engaged to a woman without her prior knowledge is sexist. It may be what the woman wants, but it's still sexist.

I find it weird that that isn't what Putthatlampshadeonyourhead is trying to promote (equality) rather than saying any discussion is disrespectful and pointless?
In my case my DW did discuss with my parents but that is a whole different story!

Many people are saying many different things. But you seem to have a personal issue with me. Oh and women who scream at men who hold doors open.

I have asked you several times why your future wife didnt speak to her parents.

I have explained why it's not respectful. Asking someone a question and their opinion, when you dont actually care about the answer, isnt a sign of respect.

Why should a woman be hanging around waiting for him to propose etc etc? Why not do it yourself - what’s wrong with you? Or they recommend people should have a kind of mini business meeting about the pros and cons.

No I wondered why you wouldn't ever dream of proposing. I didnt say proposals were pointless. Hanging round for one, is.

Refusing to propose, based on "it's a mans job" is ridiculous.

And yes, people should be talking about marriage like the legally binding contract it is. When it comes down to it, romance may be important to people. But the legally binding contract, has nothing to do with romance. Too many people forget that that's what marriage is. A contract. The romance is extra, nice bits we add to it.

Asking someone a question and their opinion, when you dont actually care about the answer, isnt a sign of respect
That's your fallacy right there, your assumption that is utterly wrong that asking and getting married irrespective of the answer means you didn't care about the answer, as I posted previously. Ta.

It’s the idea of men making plans for women in their absence

I suspect for most it is nothing of the sort. I proposed to my wife without consulting anybody. It was at her insistince that I make a nod towards tradition and have a chat with her father as he would appreciate the gesture and he did. So we kept our engagement a secret for a few days until I had spoken to him. We were not in some private men's club swilling glasses of brandy while discussing the life plans of my wife.

My DH has told our girls and only in a semi-joking way that any man who wants to marry them in the future should at least have the decency to come and look him in the eye and tell him their intentions. So we’ll see how that pans out in the future.

In our case, from my parents point of view, I had gone from our village abroad to London and had only been with this man for a few months. DH’s Spanish wasn’t fluent and my parents barely spoke any English and when they came to London they were like rabbits in the headlights. Also (it sounds awful) but they are Catholic and they were parsnoid DH wouid convert me to Islam. Even though he’s not even Muslim and never was and both of us are practically atheist and I had told them this repeatedly. But parents don’t always understand these things and my parents weren’t that worldly really. So DH just felt he should tell my DF who he was, to reassure him that he was ok and that he’d look after me and he didn’t mind if they wanted a Catholic wedding (because otherwise my mum night have lost her marbles). I know they really appreciated the gesture and trusted him a lot more as a result because he had made an effort to include them and respect them.

Something doesn’t become not-sexist because it’s what a woman wants to do!

Paloma- I quite see why that discussion was important and incredibly reassuring for your parents. What I don’t see is why you and your mother weren’t part of it. Apart from anything else, your father would have had to pass on everything your husband to be told him. Wouldn’t it have been better for her to hear it for herself?

Bertrand - well yes, he could have spoken to my mum too, but I think he was just trying to do what he thought was the right thing on a “man to man” level or whatever he would call it.

I for one have read the thread. Two men planning how one is going to become engaged to a woman without her prior knowledge is sexist. It may be what the woman wants, but it's still sexist.

Umm you are looking for sexism where there isn't any..it could of been my grandmother, father or mother that raised me. But it wasn't it was my grandfather. It's completely irrelevant he is a man.
If it was my grandmother who raised us, to be the women my sister and I are today, then my partner would ask for her blessing.

And it isn't without my knowledge. I know one day, we will get engaged and married. We have obviously had these discussions. My partner knows I don't want to at the moment, so he won't. How the heck is my partner or grandfather sexist because of this?!

You need to elaborate more on how this makes them sexist?
After everything I have written you honestly believe my partner and grandfather are horrible sexist men?

@BertrandRussell after everything I have written you still believe that my grandfather and partner and obviously me are all sexist?