To wonder what happens when your boyfriend asks your father for your hand...

[PumpkinLatteMyArse]

And then he says no?

Do adults just not get married then?

I take it most people here didn't have their father walk them down the aisle on their wedding day?

So he would only do it for free food and beer? yes, that is the reason he would ask me to marry him, for free food and beer.

Lampshade - well I don’t know, why bother asking anyone anything?

What is your ideal set up? Would it be something like....

The man feels he can’t propose to the woman because of the patriarchal roots inherent in this custom

So they sit down and have a factual, egalitarian conversation about the practicalities of marriage, given the tax benefits and so on

He can’t buy her a ring because this might be seen as “tagging her”

She, of course, is delighted and never wanted a diamond anyway

She keeps her own name because it’s HER name.

The children also take HER name to prove a point

They have separate finances even though the DH earns 20 times what the DW does because “equality” and “financial independence”

The DW goes back to work ASAP after each child because “equality” (plus her savings have fun out)

She is delighted to do so because why should the DH “a man” support her anyway. It’s 2019, not 1952

The DH and DW make sure they do exactly 50/50 housework at all times without exception. But one week, he does an extra “hobby” so this is grounds for divorce.

Sounds like a blast.

@putthatlampshade - found your reply! It wasn’t just expected by DF but by my family including my mum. So they did not see it as disrespectful to ask (even if they kinda knew they wouldn’t be able to stop it - mum told me about DF being in the same position with her dad and that they would have decided to elope if he had refused!). Don’t worry - if we had a DD, we would stop this tradition, unless DD wanted it (eg as a test of commitment!)

To me it showed commitment because DH was from a small nuclear family and was not used to visiting relatives often. He found it difficult to do this at first as he was shy and avoided it. Family are important to me and if he could not do this it might have been a deal breaker (he has been fantastic since!).

And I take it here that once your children were born, you only took off two weeks maternity, like a man is only entitled to and went straight back to work..while all your husbands were stay at home fathers? Yes?

By acting like a child and accepting that men can make very important decisions for you, you demonstrate that women are happy to be treated like children.

love how you transform a paternal blessing and asking for your hand into a man making an important decision for you

You know you wont' convince anyone, do you. The difference between you and I is that at least I respect your right to believe what you want without trying to mock, ridicule, insult, pity, shame or whatever other nonsense came about on this thread.

If my daughters boyfriend ask for their hand in marriage, lovely.
If they are against it and wouldn't even think about it, great too.
No need for drama.

TheSunIsShining19

Thank you

trying to convince me that I bring down the entire womanhood or sisterhood by making a choice you do not approve of is not really a discussion is it.

Yes because that's what everyone says.

Wish you had shared the secret of over coming sexism, by simply not putting up with shit, with the everyone else.

Except that's not what everyday sexism is about. It's about the impacts you cant do anything about and dont really know are happening.

Like bias against women in the work place. Often by people who dont realise that are displaying natural bias. Its everywhere. It's been on this thread. I have been accused of screaming at men who open doors for me. I never mentioned doors and havent screamed at anyone since my teens.

However, because I am woman that wont back down to a Male poster, that's the assumption he made about me. Its ridiculous and people will have bias against you because you are woman.

Unfortunately, sexism cant be over come by just not taking any shit. I dont take any and do pull people on it. But it still happens.

One of the ways you can do it is by setting an example.

And yes well all make decisions, that arent strictly feminist. But at least own that's what you are doing. Rather than hiding behind tradition, respect, chivalry, family values, the fact it doesnt impact other women etc

I am pretty sure they would be pleased to be asked.

It's interesting that you make this assumption. My father would not have been pleased because he brought me up in accordance with feminist values. DH would not have been pleased because we tried to instill feminist values in our children. I think there are quite a few fathers (and mothers) who would feel the same.

“The difference between you and I is that at least I respect your right to believe what you want without trying to mock, ridicule, insult, pity, shame or whatever other nonsense came about on this thread.“

I don’t do any of those things. I just point out that the decisions you make impact on other women. Up to you, of course. But your decision is not made in a vacuum.

And I take it here that once your children were born, you only took off two weeks maternity, like a man is only entitled to and went straight back to work..while all your husbands were stay at home fathers? Yes

Actually I took 6 months as it was full pay. Which is what exh did. I also have always worked full time during the day and exh worked evenings. There was no need for either to be a sahp and I wasnt giving my financial independence.

Which worked out well, because when we split, I bought my own house for me and the kids and the divorce was far easier because I wasnt worried about Bill's as well. It's also meant my career hasnt stalled.

To me it showed commitment because DH was from a small nuclear family and was not used to visiting relatives often. He found it difficult to do this at first as he was shy and avoided it. Family are important to me and if he could not do this it might have been a deal breaker (he has been fantastic since!).

I get visiting family being a deal breaker. That could cause lots of issues further on. I dont get not asking for their permission/blessing as a test of commitment.

Perfectly clear, Windows, but what you appear to be dealing with here is posters so unthinking and reactionary that they are incapable of pushing beyond their own ‘I’m all right, Jack’ mentality, and whose conception of feminism has never moved beyond the confused perception that it’s About Choice, and Women Approving Of Other Women’s Decisions, however pernicious.

I do respect anyones choice to do as they wish.

But I also have the right to question the thinking if that's what we are debating. I also have the right to not agree.

Also, if you really want to know how sexism is still very much with us, just grow old. The intersection of sexism and ageism is a very inhospitable venue.

out of curiosity,
how will you react if your daughter's boyfriend ask her dad for her hand?

(or imagine if it doesn't apply that you do have a daughter, her dad is alive or that you are being asked if you happen to be a widow?)

I am waiting for a few "my daughter would NEVER do that" bladibla, because of course some daughters on here are not allowed to have their own ideas, but asking the posters open to discussion (ish)

One of the ways you can do it is by setting an example.
which I do by being comfortable in my own choices and raising my daughters so they know that they have that choice.

Pa1oma yes that actually sounds far more sensible than, fancying around and pretending marriage is all about upholding sexist traditions and romance.

As I said, yes I did work full time, because I wanted equal financial independence. And exh, for all his faults, did do half the housework. Why wouldn't he?

My DH asked my dad who replied: "well you're not the ideal son in law" (big age gap and different religion). DH laughed it off. We've been happily married for 10 years and all is fine with my parents.

which I do by being comfortable in my own choices and raising my daughters so they know that they have that choice.

But teaching girls seeking their fathers permission or blessing is respectful, shows good family values, commitment etc isnt setting a good example.

how will you react if your daughter's boyfriend ask her dad for her hand?

My response would be "that's a question for her. Why exactly do you think you need to speak to speak to me first?'

I asked do this last night, his response was similar. He was totally baffled as to why anyone would think they needed his permission. He said if he really had doubts, he would sit her down and speak to her and tell her his concerns. However, he also knows the decision would be hers alone and would support her.

He has an adult daughter. Mine is a mid teen. He knows his relationship with his daughter and more likely to be in this situation sooner, if at all. Knowing dsd and her partner, it's not something her partner would dream of doing because he knows she would like it.

They show things like respect, commitment, good family values just in everyday life.

But teaching girls seeking their fathers permission or blessing is respectful, shows good family values, commitment etc isnt setting a good example.

in your views, and I completely disagree. There are enough threads about shit family and constant family war to know that I am very happy with my choices.
Not rejecting all traditions works well for me and around me.

I did get a few negative comments at work when I changed my name, didn't give me much respect for the women who couldn't mind their own business

Of course its my view. I didnt claim anything otherwise.

I dont think teaching young girls and women, abiding by sexist traditions means they have a good man or that their partner is a better man for doing this.

The difference between you and I is that at least I respect your right to believe what you want without trying to mock, ridicule, insult, pity, shame or whatever other nonsense came about on this thread

I wonder if you can read. I have said several times on this thread that you can believe whatever you want. Feminists fought for your right to choose and I would absolutely defend your right to make whatever decision you want.

I would fight to defend you right to make decisions I dislike and don't approve of.

What I am saying is your decision is not neutral, it does not just impact on you it has wider implications for women and for society as a whole. I believe those implications are negative. By agreeing to allow men to make important devious for you (asking permission not at blessing) you are acting like a child.

This is not being rude this is a statement of fact. Schools send home permission letters. When someone gives permission on your behalf it is because you are not deemed capable. If your father gives permission it is because he has the power and you do not.

Allow yourself to be treated like a child if you want but be aware this impacts on all women in a negative way.

Windows - it’s been explained ad infinitude in this thread that it’s more about consultation and a form of respect than actually asking for permission.

How many fathers actually think such permission is in their gift to give anyway? This is the whole context around the “asking”. Unless you are from a culture where marriage is arranged.