Page 15 | To wonder what happens when your boyfriend asks your father for your hand...

PumpkinLatteMyArse · 2019-04-27T18:13:33+00:00

And then he says no? [confused] Do adults just not get married then?

LaCastafiore · 28/04/2019 18:57

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross
I have the same rights, if not more, and privileges than any male around me, I can achieve at least as much as DH. I am good, thanks.

Sexism still exists, but inventing it everywhere doesn't help anyone, it weakens your cause and make your arguments laughable.

The beauty of the society I live in is that I don't have to take any crap from anyone, male or female. I can't ask for much more on that aspect.

BertrandRussell · 28/04/2019 18:59

“The beauty of the society I live in is that I don't have to take any crap from anyone, male or female. I can't ask for much more on that aspect.“

Brilliant. Do you think the same applies to all other women?

Igotthemheavyboobs · 28/04/2019 19:04

I got my name from my father, yes. So did DH. But no one expected him to change his name on marriage. So neither of us did

Everyone expects dp to take my name and he probably will or we will just pick a random name. Dp will ask my parents for their blessing (not permission) as he knows he'll get a free takeaway and a few beers out of it.

Putthatlampshadeonyourhead · 28/04/2019 19:13

I answered about why I think it was respectful for my DH to ask my DF on page 11 (if you’re interested

I have different pages. My thread is only 8 long.

Can you remind me if the answer?

Putthatlampshadeonyourhead · 28/04/2019 19:14

Dp will ask my parents for their blessing (not permission) as he knows he'll get a free takeaway and a few beers out of it.

So he would only do it for free food and beer?

Yes that's a very special moment

Putthatlampshadeonyourhead · 28/04/2019 19:16

I have the same rights, if not more, and privileges than any male around me, I can achieve at least as much as DH. I am good, thanks.

That's simply not true

Of course you can achieve as much, if not more than your dh.

That doesnt mean you have more privilege than any man you know. Because its innate in society.

Besides which, do you think that applies to all women?

The gender pay gap doesnt apply to me. I out earn all my Male colleagues. Doesnt mean it doesnt exist or I should encourage keeping it in place until other women toughen up.

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 19:19

If you were that much of a strong independent woman, you wouldn't let other women choices, impact your life

What a lack of support. How depressing. Ideally you wouldn't but when you live in a society and you are fighting not just the oppressors but the people who are oppressed the odds are staked against you.

We live in a world where casual sexism is embraced not only by men but by women it makes it difficult. Not impossible but difficult.

Don't worry girls when you are laying the traps and laughing when we fall we don't need men to oppress us you are doing a grand job.

@Windowsareforcheaters how is that a lack of support? It's a positive statement.
I don't let any man or woman dictate my choices in life, only my children. And you shouldn't either.

I support your choices in life, as long as you are not causing harm or pain to anybody.
You can live your life as you so wish, and I respect that.

But you can not tell me or others how to live ours.

Namenic · 28/04/2019 19:22

@putthatlampshade - I had told my parents we wanted to get married but there was family expectation DH would ask my DF. We stayed 3hrs away and DH was shy. It was important to me that DH got to know my family and culture more - which he would have to do before feeling able to ask DF. IF DF said no then DH would probably have tried a bit harder/longer but we would eventually have got married anyway (so it might have delayed things).

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 19:22

@Putthatlampshadeonyourhead

I think it's called a joke..maybe lighten up a bit, you may see your world in a much better way

LaCastafiore · 28/04/2019 19:22

Putthatlampshadeonyourhead
name one right or privilege that women haven't got.

I don't think women can be F1 racing drivers, true, I don't know of anything else.

LaCastafiore · 28/04/2019 19:24

BertrandRussell
the same applies to all women. (in this country at least)

Educating the ones who might be ignorant of these facts and fighting for the existing law to be applied doesn't give anyone the right to tell ME (and others) what to do. It would pretty much contradict everything they are trying to do in the first place, wouldn't it.

Cryalot2 · 28/04/2019 19:28

My husband did not meet my father until we were married several years. ( my parents divorced)
I would have been hurt if my fiance had asked anyone's permission to marry me. I am not owned by anyone and it's no one else's business.
No my father did not give me away. I chose a relative whom I was close to and had special reason for us both.
If permission is asked, should you even consider getting married?

Gth1234 · 28/04/2019 19:32

It's not about getting permission. It's about the decency of actually asking. In this day and age, I can't believe any parent (of a western culture) would say no, but I am pretty sure they would be pleased to be asked.

Interesting to see the changing cultures in the musical fiddler on the roof, where the tradition was to use a matchmaker

The first daughter made her own match, but asked for permission
The second daughter made her own match and didn't ask for permission
The third daughter married outside the faith.

Windowsareforcheaters · 28/04/2019 19:35

But you can not tell me or others how to live ours

I am utterly baffled by this. No one is telling you what to do it is just being explained that the decision you make will impact negatively on other women. Do what you want but don't think it is a neutral choice because it isn't.

Your decision will have a long term negative impact on all women and especially and girl children you have. Lovely, make your own mind up but be honest about the consequences,

SenecaFalls · 28/04/2019 19:36

I am not trying to tell anyone what to do. I am just stating opinions about how individual choices have a macro effect. It's called having a discussion.

Windowsareforcheaters · 28/04/2019 19:36

but I am pretty sure they would be pleased to be asked

No, my dad would have been horrified because he trusted me and respected me to make my own decisions.

Tigger001 · 28/04/2019 19:55

@PumpkinLatteMyArse The Comment was made in relation to people who wouldn't take their fiancé name. As they believe it to be patriarchal.

Your name is also from a man, and if people felt so strongly about making a stand and a difference, why wouldn't they change their man given name to double barrel it with their mothers or take just their mothers name.

Its not that a womens name is less theirs at all, it was if you believe so strongly, once they were of age, why didn't they make a step and change their names, which was given to them following patriarchy.

It's always a lively debate, I think it's good that we live in times where we have choice.

Putthatlampshadeonyourhead · 28/04/2019 19:56

Namenic I did address that point.

I think it's called a joke..maybe lighten up a bit, you may see your world in a much better way

Not really a joke though is it. I see the world fine, thanks.

name one right or privilege that women haven't got.

Are you serious?

What about the gender pay gap, or high chance of being sexually assault or harassed, or being the victim of rape yet blamed for it, or the fact that it's harder for women to be promoted?

There are loads of ways that women do not have privilege.

If you are asking that, then you do need to think harder

LaCastafiore · 28/04/2019 19:57

No one is telling you what to do it is just being explained that the decision you make will impact negatively on other women.

my decision, if anything, will prove to other women that they are free to make any choice they want, and they can proudly embrace a tradition now free of any negative context. Again, in this country.

0 negative impact on my own daughters.

It's a great way to show people that men AND WOMEN can be just as bad as each other, and can equally trying to impose their views and beliefs on others.

Putthatlampshadeonyourhead · 28/04/2019 19:59

It's not about getting permission. It's about the decency of actually asking. In this day and age, I can't believe any parent (of a western culture) would say no, but I am pretty sure they would be pleased to be asked.

So a pointless converstation. Asking for permission or the blessing of someone that cant say no.

How is that respectful?

Again, how is it decent to seek the blessing or permission of someone one else, before you ask the person you want to marry?

Namenic · 28/04/2019 20:00

Would people say it’s (asking for blessing from DF/taking man’s surname/proposal) comparable to the debate on make-up and body hair? I mean sure - our own choices impact other women (eg some may be pressured into shaving, make up when they don’t want to because it is expected) but we also have our own preferences...

Can you still be a feminist and shave/wear make-up? I think most people are quite relaxed about what someone chooses as a personal preference (though many would draw the line at forced marriage or parents preventing it unless extenuating circumstances like previous history of abuse)

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 20:02

I am utterly baffled by this. No one is telling you what to do it is just being explained that the decision you make will impact negatively on other women. Do what you want but don't think it is a neutral choice because it isn't.

Your decision will have a long term negative impact on all women and especially and girl children you have. Lovely, make your own mind up but be honest about the consequences,

How does this baffle you so much? And please elaborate on how MY choice being, that I wish for my partner to ask for my grandfather's blessing, have consequences??

LaCastafiore · 28/04/2019 20:06

trying to convince me that I bring down the entire womanhood or sisterhood by making a choice you do not approve of is not really a discussion is it.
it's funny though.

That's probably why I am not that bothered with everyday sexism, I don't put up with people's crap in general and am quite comfortable in my choices. Lead by example and all that

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 20:07

@LaCastafiore I couldn't agree more

Windowsareforcheaters · 28/04/2019 20:09

By acting like a child and accepting that men can make very important decisions for you, you demonstrate that women are happy to be treated like children.

By enjoying and being 'thrilled' by your position as a child in the relationship you demonstrate that women enjoy having decisions made for them.

This indicates to men that it is acceptable to treat women as people happy to have important decisions made for them.

This is not about a blessing this is about 'permission'. If you hand over that power to a man you deny your ability to act like a grown up.

Clear enough?