To wonder what happens when your boyfriend asks your father for your hand...

[PumpkinLatteMyArse]

And then he says no?

Do adults just not get married then?

Why can't so called feminists accept that our greatest victory has been choice ?

still can't find a better summary than this.

No one is denying historical fights, no one is denying anything.
As of today, I have the CHOICE and no one is going to tell me that I cannot take my husband's name or ban him from asking my father for my hand.

My choices don't impact on you. You don't have to get married, you don't have to get married to a MAN if you don't want to, you don't have to do anything. I chose to do so, and I could chose to be a stay-at-home mum whilst my husband goes to work. It's none of your business.

I don't need to see sexism everywhere because I don't live in the past. I do know how we got here, I never pretend that women were equal in history or even that all women are equal today. I claim the rights that i have in this country, changing my name is one of them.

If you don't like it, too bad, you are not in charge.

@LaCastafiore well said!!

But they will still find a way to argue..

I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered

My choices do not impact any other woman, on her decisions in life. It's simple.

She can do her and I will do me.

“Reassured about what, exactly?”

Well isn’t it obvious?

From what I can see you were quite insulting yourself

@Tennesseewhiskey So was another PP to me but i dont see you calling them out?

Because you are deliberately trying to find/take offense just as some who scream at a man for holding open a door - its not sexist but respectful.

The only person talking about opening doors is you. I am not offended. What a weird thing to say. I disagree its respectful, I think its sexist and disrespectful to your partner.

And why could she not have talked to them herself, in depth.

This is the issue. I wont back down so youvstart throwing around, that I am getting offended and scream at people. Oddly, insult thrown at women when they refuse to change their opinion men never get accused of screaming at people who they disagree with. But there you ar making assumptions on how I act and what offends me. Thanks for attempting to mansplain. But it actually explained nothing

So why is asking for their blessing and discussing things offensive - except for those who go out of their way to find offense. Cheers, I am happy with my choices.

I am not offended by your choices. I dont agree. But you keep coming back to justify it, so I keep putting my point forward. Why is that so wrong.

It is disrespectful to seek someones blessing knowing that if they dont give it, you will ignore it anyway. That's not showing respect at all.

Well if they don’t give you their blessing then at least you know you tried.

So was another PP to me but i dont see you calling them out?

Because I am not engaging with them. You have. You posted something inaccurate. I simply pointed out what a previous poster actually said and I am talking to you not them.

Sexist choices that women make help cumulatively to perpetuate sexism for all women by enabling societal attitudes and conventions that are already deeply sexist.

If you were that much of a strong independent woman, you wouldn't let other women choices, impact your life.

And if you were that much of a 'feminist' you would support any woman on any choice they made in life.

Shouldn't we all as women, be backing every other woman and their choices?

I find it all rather odd and very contradicting

If you were that much of a strong independent woman, you wouldn't let other women choices, impact your life.

So women only suffer from sexism because they are strong or independent enough? Like the gender pay gap? Women who are paid less simply are strong women?

Or is it a result of a long history of sexism?

Nowhere in feminism does it it claim you should support all women in all things they do.

How wise feminism have got anywhere

How wise feminism have got anywhere

How would

If you were that much of a strong independent woman, you wouldn't let other women choices, impact your life.

109% agree with this and think it should get said more often, specifically on a thread like this.

“Shouldn't we all as women, be backing every other woman and their choices?“

No. Women are perfectly capable of making non feminist and anti feminist choices- I am not going to back them in those.

“Why can't so called feminists accept that our greatest victory has been choice ?”

“So called” feminists do. Feminists understand that there is much more to it than that.

If you were that much of a strong independent woman, you wouldn't let other women choices, impact your life.

Sort of hard to do, when quite a few of them are making choices that may roll back reproductive and other women's rights in my country to the 1950s.

Seneca - so why do you think women make different choices to you? Do you think they are slightly dense? Brainwashed by patriarchy? What could it be?

It’s respectful by virtue of the fact you respect then enough to make a point of speaking to the DF to reassure him about his own daughter. Really, it’s not that hard to understand, is it?

So if this is your argument, then presumably women should also speak to the parents of their potential husband, to reassure them about their own son? Sorry, the father, because - what, the mother doesn't give a shit? Or no-one else gives a shit about what she thinks? 🤔

I don't need to see sexism everywhere because I don't live in the past.

If you don't still see sexism everywhere, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

If you were that much of a strong independent woman, you wouldn't let other women choices, impact your life

What a lack of support. How depressing. Ideally you wouldn't but when you live in a society and you are fighting not just the oppressors but the people who are oppressed the odds are staked against you.

We live in a world where casual sexism is embraced not only by men but by women it makes it difficult. Not impossible but difficult.

Don't worry girls when you are laying the traps and laughing when we fall we don't need men to oppress us you are doing a grand job.

TheOnly - I did have a conversation with DH’s mum once we became engaged. Obviously not before though, as I wasn’t the one proposing to her son.

Obviously not before though, as I wasn’t the one proposing to her son

Well, that's not very respectful. Shouldn't you have been reassuring her? - after all, if, as you argue, this is nothing to do with patriarchal notions of ownership then surely both you AND your partner should be having these important egalitarian conversations with both sets of parents.

“Do you think they are slightly dense? Brainwashed by patriarchy? What could it be?“

Well I do think some women are brainwashed by the patriarchy, yes. And I think some women actively support it. And I think some women have never been given the opportunity or the tools to question what they have grown up with. Incidentally, I think the same applies to men.

You misunderstand me Only. I’m not saying it’s egalitarian. I don’t actually think it needs to be. As I said, it’s personal interpretation.

*@seneca and @putthatlampshade * I answered about why I think it was respectful for my DH to ask my DF on page 11 (if you’re interested). Myself and I suspect a lot of other women value the choice aspect - if that doesn’t fit into your definition of feminism then I guess i’m Not a feminist (though I am v grateful to feminists in history and some of my views overlap).

My husband told my parents he was going to ask me which I found odd and would have told him not to if I'd known. It wasn't a dumpable event. It was more just out of respect to let them know they were stuck with him for life Looking back I think it was actually a nice thing to do.