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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder what happens when your boyfriend asks your father for your hand...

753 replies

PumpkinLatteMyArse · 27/04/2019 19:13

And then he says no? Confused

Do adults just not get married then?

OP posts:
TheBulb · 28/04/2019 13:43

Pa1oma, I do see that, again, but statistically, there must be as many men with poor relationships with their fathers or negative associations with their families as women, but they don’t regard their surnames as something to be gratefully got rid of.

TheSun, what I’ve just said to Pa1oma is my point. Women pile onto these threads talking about their awful, hard-to-spell, or negative associations surnames, and offer this as justification for changing their names. Men presumably also have difficult to spell or silly-sounding surnames — after all, as people have pointed out, most of us have our father’s surnames — but appear to generally continue to live with them.

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 13:43

Like I posted up the thread, I would want my partner to ask for my grandfather's blessing. If he didn't it would be a no from me!

In my life, my grandfather is my hero, my dad.
He is the person I look up to the most in my life, I love him and respect him so much. He raised me. Teaching me to respect everybody, treat everybody the same, to be independent, study hard, try my best, crap will be thrown my way but that I will always come out the other side, that I have a voice and should use it, to love myself, make sure I'm financially independent, never to rely on a man in life..without him guiding me, I wouldn't be the woman I am today.
God knows what I would be like!

After all his time, effort and love he has given to me, dedicating his life to me (when he didn't have to) I would want his blessing.

Pa1oma · 28/04/2019 13:44

As has been explained already OnlyLivingBoy, the context for such decisions today is different to what it was 50 or 500 years ago.

And as regards my earlier comment, I’m just saying that the MN advice from some posters seems to be to just drift into marriage with someone who can’t even be arsed to ask you in any meaningful way. Or, even better, don’t let him ask you at all, just sit down and have a business-like conversation about it. Well, it might all sound very 50/50 and enlightened, but it also sounds boring and uninspiring as hell, which is why most women hope for more than this, I expect.

SenecaFalls · 28/04/2019 13:45

Why can't so called feminists accept that our greatest victory has been choice ?

Because feminism is not about choice. It's about freedom from oppression.

Pa1oma · 28/04/2019 13:56

Yes but women feel oppressed by different things. Where do you draw the line?

TheBulb · 28/04/2019 14:02

TheSun, I adore my father, too. That is completely irrelevant to whether I want him to be consulted, or even pretend-consulted, on any of my adult decisions.

Pa1oma, we only got married for a practical reason (moving abroad, visa), after over a decade in a happy, committed relationship. We have been very happy together in total for 27 years, despite the absence of a proposal, rings, fancy wedding etc.

SenecaFalls · 28/04/2019 14:09

I adored my dad, too, especially the fact that he would have laughed his head off if DH had asked his permission to marry me.

TheBulb · 28/04/2019 14:12

The pay gap, lack of access to abortion/contraception/education in some places, the pitiable conviction rates for rape, the underrepresentation of women in government and at higher levels in the workplace, the prevalence of normalised sexual harassment by powerful men, new failures to protect safe spaces for women — all these are facts of ongoing female oppression, not ‘feelings’.

janeybumtum · 28/04/2019 14:13

My stbxh asked my dad. My dad's reply was "I don't believe in marriage, it ought to be banned, so don't ask me."

Sure enough my stbxh was the arsehole my dad tried to warn me he was and the marriage didn't last five minutes, but dad still thinks marriage is a stupid idea anyway.

Pa1oma · 28/04/2019 14:14

Bulb - probably it’s just like anything else. Some people like to make a big hoo haa out of birthdays and occasions in general. Others just aren’t bothered.

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 14:18

Why is it irrelevant?

Consulted? I think this is the wrong word.

IMO it's my partner asking for my grandfather's blessing. Not permission. Not consulting or pretend consulting.

My grandfather would be so excited and happy, knowing I was about to move on to a different chapter in my life, so to speak. As soon as I got engaged, he would be the first person I would phone! I would want to hear the excitement and joy! Being my rock for my childhood and life so far, I would want him to be part of it all ☺️

As a independent woman, I can still tell my partner no. Like my partner knowing that if he didn't ask for my grandfather's blessing, it would be no again.

To me I am the one being respected fully in all this. I'm the one that dictates the way I would like things. Like it's my choice if I would want to keep my surname or take my partners. My partner respects me and would agree with anything I would like or wish to happen.

I don't see how this makes me, a piece of property being owned from one person to the next?

SenecaFalls · 28/04/2019 14:26

Asking for a blessing is not the same as asking for permission.

flowery · 28/04/2019 14:39

”After all his time, effort and love he has given to me, dedicating his life to me (when he didn't have to) I would want his blessing.”

But you said you wanted your partner to ask for your grandfather’s blessing? If you’re the one who wants his blessing for your decision, ask him yourself, surely?

Countryslices · 28/04/2019 14:58

I'm 32 - in the last 2 years I think 8 of my friendship circle including myself got engaged. ALL the men took their FIL for a beer / golf / coffee and 'asked them'
However all had already floated the idea with their partner to see if this is something they actively would encourage / felt indifferent towards / had an issue with. All of my friends either encouraged the tradition / or had no issue that their parents would know about the imminent engagement and had no issue that any element of surprise would be taken away.

I personally knew my fiancé and father were looking forward to the tradition of him asking. And my dad was so so chuffed that fiancé had followed the tradition. I even think my fiancé worded it as a statement rather than permission. It may be something that dies out but I see it as harmless as lots of other silly traditions I will follow such as 'something old / something blue etc'

I can't see a situation (based on personal experience) of it being taken very literally and actual permission being sought.

Windowsareforcheaters · 28/04/2019 15:24

I loved my dad to bits and he was immensely proud of me.

He was proud that I was strong independent women - he brought me up to stand up for myself and be proud of who I am. He would have been mortified to see me treated like a child.

He wanted his daughter to be a woman and not a little girl.

MemoryConcerns · 28/04/2019 15:26

My husband would be really upset if DDs future partner asked Him if she could get married.

She's an autonomous being.

Not something at a cattle market.

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 15:32

@flowery I think you are taking it a bit too seriously.

When I first starting seeing my partner, and introduced him to my grandfather, of course we had a conversation and I wanted my grandfather's opinion on him!! He has met a few ex's before my now partner, and told me 'it won't work' 'he isn't the right man you deserve' etc..but told me to still do what I want (which I did, and they all ended disastrously!!)

On meeting my now partner, he told me he was completely right for me, stable, reliable, sensible, and has his feet on the ground. That he could see him making me extremely happy, and that's all he wants. He was right. He is always right!
So yes we had had a conversation prior to being more serious.

Like I said I would want my partner to. I want to include my grandfather wherever I can in my life. That's what he would like, and it's the least he deserves for being there for me my whole life!

It's very harmless.

I'm not being forced to marry someone I don't want to. My grandfather isn't making any decisions for me. I'm my own woman, and that's what I would like, so that's what would happen Smile

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 15:36

And both my boys now, I hope when they are older and want to get engaged, they have the respect to ask for their future wife/ husbands families blessing. If that's what their future partners want!

GreytExpectations · 28/04/2019 15:37

GreytExpectations to be fair I have read the thread. It seems you dont like people disagreeing.

No, i dont have a problem with people disagreeing. I dont like when they do it via insults but im in the minority on this thread so im sure you will explain to me how being called sexist is "just a disagreement" and not an insult.

TheBulb · 28/04/2019 15:41

CountrySlices, I suppose we tend to surround ourselves with people who share our values. Your friendship circle sounds very odd and reactionary to me on this issue. (Surely the issue is with men conspiring to infantilise an adult woman, not removing the element of surprise in announcing an engagement..?)

My friends are very international (now mostly in our forties), and not one would have countenanced their father being asked — the only woman I know (parent of DS’s classmate) who had this had an arranged marriage, so it was a literal asking. I also don’t have a single female friend who changed her name on marriage.

I would find the idea of a father ‘looking forward to the tradition of being asked’ pretty distasteful, and indicative of a man inhabiting the past in some way. Likewise the fiancé who thinks this is a normal thing to d.

Windowsareforcheaters · 28/04/2019 15:48

how being called sexist

If you were supporting what is clearly a tradition based in misogyny then you are being sexist.

It's your choice, you are free to make it, but it is a decision based in the patriarchy and oppression of women.

Windowsareforcheaters · 28/04/2019 15:49

It's very harmless

No it really isn't.

Your choice, you make it, but don't kid yourself that it is without consequences for other women.

TheSunIsShining19 · 28/04/2019 15:55

Your choice, you make it, but don't kid yourself that it is without consequences for other women.

@Windowsareforcheaters how does my choice, on how I live my life, has consequences for other women?

Please elaborate Confused

blackteasplease · 28/04/2019 16:00

My exh didn't ask my dad. I'm not sure if it was because I'd warning him I wouldn't be marrying anyone who did!

My Dad got the hump and exh ended up going down on one knee to him (Dad) in the pub after we were engaged. Was quite funny.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 28/04/2019 16:05

As has been explained already OnlyLivingBoy, the context for such decisions today is different to what it was 50 or 500 years ago

And? Are you arguing that the context has changed but that you still adhere to this outdated remnant of a more misogynistic time because...you're nostalgic for it? You miss the time when women were treated like possessions and want to sustain that?

I see no-one has yet managed to explain how it demonstrates respect.