To get irritated with British parents in other countries attitude re parenting practices?

[amandacarnet]

Yes I probably am. But I come across British parents in real life and onMN who live abroad, and are loudly horrified at some of the ways children are routinely raised in the country they have moved to. I am not saying when you move to a country you have to agree with how most parents in that country raise their kids. But surely if you choose to move abroad, you should realise that things might be done differently. So kids may be allowed to do things at an age most would not accept in Britain. Or education may be delivered differently. Or kids may be expected to do more looking after of younger siblings.
It's as if some people think everyone in the world should follow what Britain generally sees as good parenting. When of course every culture has its own idea of what good parenting is.
I am amazed that when people choose to move abroad with kids they don't always consider any differences in the culture a,round parenting and education and how this might affect their family.
By the way I only talk about British parents as I am British and so only hear this from British people. Parents in other countries may be just as guilty of this.

What a weird thing to post about.

I live in Australia...I am British. Of course I've got opinions and thoughts about the differences in parenting. Am I supposed to not mention it or want to discuss it ever?

You don't emigrate and mutely accept all differences without trying to make sense of them through discussion.

“So kids may be allowed to do things at an age most would not accept in Britain. Or education may be delivered differently. Or kids may be expected to do more looking after of younger siblings.”. These are all things discussed in Britain with people having different opinions on each subject. OP is there a specific issue here?

Majority of MN posters are British so I'm not sure why you'd bother using that as an example.

I'm raising my kids in a foreign country and I don't think the education system is as good here so I make reasonable adjustments for that. A lot of my friends here are British and they have noted that the education system isn't as good but I think it's fine to do that because you want what's best for your child.

When I say the education system isn't as good I mean that factually - literacy rates here are lower.

I know what you mean. I'm a Brit abroad and am in a country where corporal punishment is more accepted, though by no means universal. I am highly against it, but I'm not sure that's British values, as I was smacked myself by a British mother. Not sure.

I can only assume you are a monoglot.

I speak a number of languages and believe me it is universal.

I've seen a good few threads in the Living Overseas board where assumptions about state vs private schools that might be applicable (though not necessarily) in England are transposed lock, stock and barrel onto the American educational landscape.

Same goes for assumptions about American academic backwardness based on observations that American students do not do much formal work in phonics until they get to 1st grade.

The posters involved are mainly British as far as I can tell, though the posters who reassure tend to be British too, expats posting with the advantage of experience of the system.

Having said all that, I know a lot of Nigerian, Russian, Chinese and Irish parents in my area who tend to push their children academically a good deal more than American parents do. Maybe we all come from education systems where competition is more built in to the system and where there isn't the same feeling of security that you find among the American middle classes that everything will work out fine. We definitely do talk among ourselves about different approaches to education (especially maths) and different expectations of our children's focus from the ones we see around us.

..........
There was a thread here a few months ago or maybe longer where a couple found themselves living abroad in an apartment complex where there was a pool. The complaint was that children were swimming until late, and being quite loud. The gist of the tone was 'the bloody cheek of them'.

Well sometimes people may choose to live abroad because they have a partner from that country. That’ll be me one day soon. And just like my husband is allowed to be critical of aspects of parenting both here and there, so will I.

The things you mention, like education systems, aren’t parenting. Nor does it really affect you much how other people raise their children - as parents, you’re still able to raise yours as you see fit. So not really sure where your post is trying to target?

Fwiw, my biggest criticisms of attitudes to parenting in my husband’s country are things like extremely lax attitudes to safety, like car seats. (And that’s in families where they have enough money for the car, let alone the seat). Surely you wouldn’t like to try to argue that’s reasonable?

I am also raising a child abroad. Here I have seen coca cola in babies bottles. Most children would have drank fizzy pop by age 1. Also tea is in many cases for children biscuits and milk or more pop. Babies are wrapped up in fleecey layers even in the height of summer 34 degrees. It is frowned upon if children are bare foot or go out in the rain. Should I adopt these measures just because it is the culture? I mean of course we can meet half way or adapt to certain scenarios but I don't think I could ever ply my three year old with junk and coca cola.

Depends what you mean! I think engaging in respectful critical debate is ok, what I find grating is the unthinking assumption that what is done in one country is "normal" and everything else is weird

I certainly see Brits doing that a lot, one example that comes to mind is the horror British parents express at children staying up later than is considered normal in the UK in countries such as Italy and Spain, these parents just express horror at this without considering the differences in cultures and habit that might make it ok in those countries

Or even worst, I remember one particular discussion during a trip to Italy and one British mother being all concerned about "Italian germs" which are notoriously (???) worse than British ones

But I think two things to consider, first, probably everybody does it, not just the Brits, and secondly, there is a difference between engaging in debate, which I think is ok, and being mindlessly convinced your way is better just because it is yours!

I agree with this ^^ and I think I know what you mean op, in that sometimes it feels like a bit of a colonial attitude towards foreigners, an unthinking assumption of superiority. But I don't think it has to be.

There are plenty of parents in the UK who originated from elsewhere who continue to parent in the manner they see fit while in the UK, I am pretty sure that wherever you are from moving to another country does not obligate you to embrace the parenting styles of your host nation, it is very natural to stick to what you know.

Depends what you mean! I think engaging in respectful critical debate is ok, what I find grating is the unthinking assumption that what is done in one country is "normal" and everything else is weird

This is exactly what I mean. Of course you won't bring up your kids exactly like the country you have moved to sees as normal. Of course you can criticise the child rearing practices that are about actual safety such as child car seats.
But what I am talking about is British parents horrified by what are simply different ways of doing things that really harm no one. You don't have to change what you do, but neither does that make your way the only acceptable way to do things.
I guess I do think a bit wider as well in that as your kids get older, you do need to bend with the culture you live in. So if it is absolutely normal for all the kids from 7 to play in the grass space outside your apartment, you are setting your kids up for a difficult time if they are the only ones not allowed to.
I know there are some cultures I would ever want to raise kids in, and so I would never choose to live there.

And I do speak two other languages, but only enough to get by in, not to really make close friends.

Surely every parent thinks their way is best otherwise they wouldnt be doing it..

Its hardly a british thing

There are cultural norms around parenting in every country, that if people step outside of, they will get criticised.

Exactly. Its not a british thing

Unless youre just trying to be goady on a majority british site

I'm foreign and I'm critical of aspects of the UK, both parenting-related or not.

We all compare things to our "normal."

I’m foreign, and I think there are some absolutely batshit elements of British parenting.

So many of you don't seem to understand my actual post, sigh.

thebulb what, what ?!?? Do tell

I am British but have children in another country, they are going to the local school as I wanted them to integrate better than I am managing but I do have to go against my cultural expectations a lot, kids play out earlier, it's more child centered . . .

what I am talking about is British parents horrified by what are simply different ways of doing things that really harm no one. You don't have to change what you do, but neither does that make your way the only acceptable way to do things.
I guess I do think a bit wider as well in that as your kids get older, you do need to bend with the culture you live in. So if it is absolutely normal for all the kids from 7 to play in the grass space outside your apartment, you are setting your kids up for a difficult time if they are the only ones not allowed to.

I agree with this.

I have seen British tourists at a well known touristy attraction that is also a favourite among locals in my nearby big city refusing to allow their children to splash around in a fountain designed for splashing around in even though (or maybe because?) there were dozens of other children there having a ball. More than one family, more than one occasion. The weather was so hot each time that wet clothes would have dried out in 15 minutes.

In British families I have been acquainted with in the US I have seen extreme reluctance to hire teenage babysitters even though the teens came recommended by parents like themselves albeit American, and outright suspicion of the sort of casual sleepover that is favoured by many families in my area - sleepovers that essentially developed from a play session. Maybe the British parents thought the host parents were lying when they assured them they were perfectly fine with having their child sleep over, and were actually desperately looking for help in the form of a No from them?

And the horror of later bedtimes.

Later bedtimes is a highly personal thing, every child is different. If you know next day you will be dealing with the aftermath of a child who has gone to bed late and still wakes up early, or who gets overtired and can't sleep, then you may have a different view on the matter.

I am from the UK, but my children have always lived overseas. We have lived overseas for nearly 25 years and to be successful as an expat, and by that I mean to enjoy your life in the new country, is having a tolerant attitude to ideas/attitudes/practices that are 'alien' to your home country/upbringing. My ds attended a local school in Austria where it's completely normal for children not to be able to read when they start school at 6. He learnt to read in German with everyone else and was reading fluently at the end of grade one - as was every other child in the class. I did teach him to read in English at home before the age of 6 as I felt he would struggle to repatriate to the UK and enter year 2 without being able to read (we did not know when we were going back to the UK).
I think the balance is the key - some ideas I have embraced, others I am not keen on. We now live in China and I am probably more British in my approach to parenting and education than I was when we lived in Europe. I don't see any need for a 12 year old to be completing homework and extra lessons at 10 pm at night and am critical of the way some adults parent here, particularly with regard to safety and also basic manners.

In the country I moved to, we live in an apartment complex with a central courtyard. It’s totally ‘normal’ here for parents to congregate in late evening/nights to socialize, etc.

The biggest adjustment for our family was changing the kids sleep schedule, or risk them (and me!) being left out of so many social opportunities. Late nights are just part of the culture, just like adapting to hotter temps, different food, language, etc.

I must say, that when a new British family move in and are keeping to the traditional UK 7pm bath/bed time, it always seems to me to look like such a palaver now.

^TheBulb. I’m foreign, and I think there are some absolutely batshit elements of British parenting*

I’m British and I think there are some absolutely batshit elements of British parenting.

I’m in my 40’s, it wasn’t like this in the 70/80’s.