To get irritated with British parents in other countries attitude re parenting practices?

[amandacarnet]

Yes I probably am. But I come across British parents in real life and onMN who live abroad, and are loudly horrified at some of the ways children are routinely raised in the country they have moved to. I am not saying when you move to a country you have to agree with how most parents in that country raise their kids. But surely if you choose to move abroad, you should realise that things might be done differently. So kids may be allowed to do things at an age most would not accept in Britain. Or education may be delivered differently. Or kids may be expected to do more looking after of younger siblings.
It's as if some people think everyone in the world should follow what Britain generally sees as good parenting. When of course every culture has its own idea of what good parenting is.
I am amazed that when people choose to move abroad with kids they don't always consider any differences in the culture a,round parenting and education and how this might affect their family.
By the way I only talk about British parents as I am British and so only hear this from British people. Parents in other countries may be just as guilty of this.

Mumin thats the kind of thing I mean. If you refuse to change anything so your kids will fit in, they will suffer. You do have to be flexible.

I'm British, living abroad.
Some stuff I tend to the UK norms, some stuff I switch to a more multinational approach (I'm surrounded by expats rather than locals), some stuff I have no choice but to switch to the norms if this voucher try (getting to school) and some stuff I openly refuse to relent on (carseats, and unaccompanied swimming pool trips aged 7 being two examples).

What I have found intriguing is all these different routes to bringing up kids, and they can all (pretty much) produce functioning adults.

What I have found intriguing is all these different routes to bringing up kids, and they can all (pretty much) produce functioning adults. As a non-Brit in the UK, this is the thing I found most unfamiliar when I had children here. The driven, sometimes pushy focus on shaping a child, almost as if the expectation is that they will not grow into functioning adults if you don't teach them the minutiae of being one. It's very different from the live and let live approach from where I was born and something I've had to learn not to judge.

It sounds like OP has come across a cabal of bitchy expats who whine about everything.

And has assumed they are typical of British people.

And so decided to do what she believes they are doing (applying their interpretation of something to a whole country) and asking us to make sense of it.

There is no sense, other than that some people aren't very nice, and like-minded people flock together.

If you are unhappy, OP, then you need to look at ways to vary your social life. Depending on where you are, it can be very difficult to get away from a group completely, so you may need to smile and nod. But I hope you have plenty of interests away from themor can develop some.

I would think it is the right of any parent, British or not, to question any area of parenting they feel falls short. You may describe it as being critical, I would describe it as shining a light.

Some countries are way behind in terms of girls rights, education, tech teaching etc it is okay to be honest about that. You don't need to blindly accept failing standards just because you happen to not be born there.

I would look at another way, those very British parents may bring about very positive changes for the country no?

Fucking hell scorpion, where do you live??

I don't know OP. Everyone on Mumsnet wants to live in Scandinavia, it seems

I am not talking about a lack of rights for girls. I am talking about things that really are just cultural difference. Bedtimes, playing out, stuff like that. And I am not saying they should parent exactly how the locals do.
But if you go and live in another country, then you will negatively I pact your kids if you ignore every single cultural norm in relation to child rearing.
With safety things like child car seats,this is different. But if for example all local kids have a siesta and stay up late playing, you will affect your kids social life if your kids do not have a siesta and go to bed early.
And I don't understand why anyone chooses to move abroad,but behaves as if they were still in Britain all the time.

And I don't understand why anyone chooses to move abroad,but behaves as if they were still in Britain all the time

We moved for work. Most of the British I know around here did the same.

You don't have to go abroad to find these things though.

Many of us don't adhere to "normal" British child rearing practices right here in the UK.
I chose not to punish, slept wih my kids until they were 4 years old, didn't start solids until they were 9 months etc etc.

Many of us make perenting choices that are not typical.

I am not British and live in the UK. What shocked me was not even some elements of British parenting that I don't agree with, but the massive abyss between, on one hand, intense involvement of the state in one's parenting (every time a "health visitor" came, I felt like I am being interrogated in court for a crime) and, on the other hand, completely lax attitude in other areas such as homeschooling (a relative of ex-DH had learning difficulties and no qualifications, but the state had absolutely no issues with her "homeschooling" her children).

What is so particular about British parenting? I'm not British. Just curious

It's universal. I used to teach in international schools and had parents of all nationalities complain about the prevailing parenting culture of a country. It even extended to the pupils themselves, who, in one case, complained that the local teens were like "babies". Neither of the parties were British.

all local kids have a siesta and stay up late playing, you will affect your kids social life

Its obvious you are now talking about Spain. I lived on the islands for many years, and children can regularly be seen out playing and having dinner at midnight. They have an early start for school - due to the heat - and yes siesta is usually in the afternoon.

I totally understand why any parent would think this is far too late. Even with the siesta (and not all children can sleep in the day) Six hours and half hours sleep is far too little for any child to function properly. So an impact on their social life is certainly secondary to their health and well being for most parents. I would not want to be up to eleven or twelve every night either. I always went to bed at my usual time too.

Why do you even care op?

It is for those parents to decide what is right for their children, not you. They don't have to stay up all hours to have friends.

You sound resentful and I don't know why.

I think moving to a new country and then slating the way they do everything is pretty crap.

Especially since all we hear is "they don't try to fit in" "they don't do things our way" "they're in Britain, we do things differently here" about immigrants in the sodding MSM.

So OP, I think you're right. I think if you move to a country (whether that's the UK or not) you should make an effort not to exclude your children from things they may enjoy because of your own hang ups. Brits abroad have a pretty poor reputation for not being part of other cultures, otherwise we wouldn't have all those theme pubs and dreadful greasy spoon cafes in resorts!!! I think your post goes along the same kind of lines.

Not sure why the post has been misunderstood, it was pretty clear.

InTheHeatofLisbon So fitting in is more important than your child's health? Interesting.

Springwalk how the fuck does playing out, or eating different food, or being part of another culture affect your child's health?

Honestly, I can't even understand how you made that ridiculous leap so am struggling to answer it.

Unless you can point out exactly where I said fitting in is more important than your child's health? Because I didn't, fuck knows how your brain got you there.

Interesting that you think being part of another culture compromises your child's health though. Scratch the surface and it's usually not too far down, little undertones.

If a Spanish child came here, and played out until 11pm and slept during the day they'd pretty soon find themselves isolated from their peers. The parents would be criticised for being stubborn and not trying to fit in with British culture.

It applies the other way around. Because not everyone who is from the UK expects the world to speak English, cook British food and do things their way. A lot appear to though, and folk wonder why we've got such a shitty reputation abroad?

The way Spanish folk do things obviously works for them, and if you live in Spain I think you should make the effort to become part of Spanish society.

Isn't it a question about integration in general? Which I've seen with both expats (my aunts integrated but some of their friends refused too) and people over here. They tend to try and form their own mini communities when they do that and can alienate themselves or their kids.

I've seen in the expat life (and here) refusals for big things that integrate like learning language and small things at schooling or personal levels. Some things are to a child's social detriment but usually the mini communities negate that to some effect. Some things are just different and suit the family.

And I don't understand why anyone chooses to move abroad,but behaves as if they were still in Britain all the time.

I dont get it either, it baffles the aunts too why their friends don't make an effort or enjoy the lifestyle. I've seen it here too with people doing the same, there is no sense in moving to a country if you dislike or don't agree with the lifestyle and culture. I'd love to live abroad but there are countries i wouldn't consider because integrating with that way of thinking is not for me. It would be strange to go there and try to continue as i am when it goes against so much there.

@TheBulb
I’m foreign, and I think there are some absolutely batshit elements of British parenting.

what are the really out-there ones you have noticed ? (british parent here born and raised)

As a different POV, I was raised as an expat child (MEastern family, moved to Africa). Parents either couldn't or wouldn't make any effort to integrate beyond ensuring I was exposed to English. We moved there when I was 5. I remained a bit of an outsider until I emigrated myself as an adult - obviously at some point I began to hold some personal responsibility for that, but the messages from my parents about the various local communities was incredibly pessimistic/paranoid/racist. I now live in the UK, foreign (3rd country) DH, toddler daughter... I damn well sure I try to integrate and assess local approaches to parenting on their merits, for all our sakes.

I’m British, my husband is Danish, his ex-wife is Ukrainian and we all live in Switzerland with DS and DSS between us. There are many different deferent parenting styles to consider so we generally have a go with the flow attitude. I actually really like the Swiss parenting/schooling style, lots of outdoor time, kids expected to walk to school by them selves from an early age and no phonics learning til they start school at 6. The school grounds here are generally open to the public and the kids congregate there to play after school and there is a lot of family activity there at the weekends. My husband is less keen on the strictness of school life as it’s not what he grew up with but he can see the benefits, Swiss children in general are incredibly polite and learn to follow rules well.

A lot of Indian (and Chinese) parents who come to Britain are fairly smug about their kids maths / reading skills in comparison to local students, then often their kids’ progress tends to go down the drain because these kids aren’t raised to be independent (in terms of feeding themselves or exposure to a variety of non-pressure cooked cuisine / dressing / wiping their bums) and so get severe anxiety in school which affects performance. On the other end of the scale, British and Indian kids raised in China tend to do really well in comparison to local kids because of they are more self-sufficient than Chinese grads.

Er wow that was a very animated and aggressive post. Perhaps the heat is getting to you a little?

At no point did I say eating the local food or full involvement in cultural norms would be a bad thing.

What I actually said referring directly to the point op was making about the late night socialising, was that this could and most likely foes impact the children negatively.

Sleep deprivation is a serious problem. So although the parent op is referring to may have integrated fully in all other ways, inflicting sleep deprivation on her children is probably step too far. And not unreasonably.

You can scream and swear about undertones with no real basis. But here on the UK we have a huge range of cultures in every town and city, and we accommodate them all with respect, even the ones we don’t agree with. I don’t see why this sentiment can’t be extended to British parents raising children overseas. Why should they sacrifice their values? There is no reason to, a bedtime decision is hardly going to make a difference.

It happens equally when people move to Britain. Eg a lot of European parents love to constantly state their kids wouldn’t have even started school back in their own counties. One little girl in my sons class has said she isn’t allowed to go to English peoples houses, it seems expected that their friends will largely be extended family members. People’s parenting is shaped by the way they were patented so it’s unsurprising any foreigners bring foreign attitudes to their parenting

Springwalk ok that makes sense. You can't understand a comment without adding your own spin to it and twisting it entirely out of context.

No wonder your post made little sense.

Have a great day.