To get irritated with British parents in other countries attitude re parenting practices?

[amandacarnet]

Yes I probably am. But I come across British parents in real life and onMN who live abroad, and are loudly horrified at some of the ways children are routinely raised in the country they have moved to. I am not saying when you move to a country you have to agree with how most parents in that country raise their kids. But surely if you choose to move abroad, you should realise that things might be done differently. So kids may be allowed to do things at an age most would not accept in Britain. Or education may be delivered differently. Or kids may be expected to do more looking after of younger siblings.
It's as if some people think everyone in the world should follow what Britain generally sees as good parenting. When of course every culture has its own idea of what good parenting is.
I am amazed that when people choose to move abroad with kids they don't always consider any differences in the culture a,round parenting and education and how this might affect their family.
By the way I only talk about British parents as I am British and so only hear this from British people. Parents in other countries may be just as guilty of this.

Live in England, shocked at how some parents bring kids up.

Irish immigrant groups in the US have been very vocal in opposition to the current anti-immigrant climate, the border wall, etc. in the US

There is no anti-immigrant climate here in the United States. There is an anti illegal immigrant climate - hence the need for the wall or some other means of stopping the illegal crossings of the southern border.

It's getting ridiculous here! Our once sleepy safe little towns are now reporting drive-by shootings and gang killings with dead bodies found along the roads. Legal immigrants are vetted and we're okay with that because this nation was built by legal immigrants. I am an American right-winger.

Don't forget even in the hay-day of mass immigration, many were turned away at Ellis Island.

I am on holiday abroad and it has been fascinating to see how relaxed and carefree both the parents and children are here. No ‘parent police’ just happy carefree families. Much nicer.

This isn't a British thing, it happens the world over. You're just seeing British examples because you're on a British parenting forum. I've got plenty of friends from other countries who regularly complain about this stuff too, it just part of the parcel of living in different cultures.

It also happens within a country, because we have different value systems. I live in the USA, the things that frustrate me about parenting here are the things that frustrate me about parenting in the UK: poor discipline, giving young kids fuck loads sugar, unhealthy meals, putting kids in front of screens all the time, kids screaming when there isn't danger, kids on scooters in grocery stores etc.

Not at all ! It drives me nuts when I see British parents putting their kids to bed early for example in Spain when actually the kids could be having a siesta and then a fiesta in the summer evenings! Or in Germany where children are allowed to be so much more independent e.g. walking to school solo, being home alone for a couple of hours whilst Mum is out and a lot of other freedoms that are totally frowned upon in the UK! Or in France where a 5 year old is allowed to try a sip a wine at the table ❤️

As a non-Brit in the UK, this is the thing I found most unfamiliar when I had children here. The driven, sometimes pushy focus on shaping a child, almost as if the expectation is that they will not grow into functioning adults if you don't teach them the minutiae of being one. It's very different from the live and let live approach from where I was born and something I've had to learn not to judge

As a Brit, I find this strange !!

Having your kids out playing during the hottest part of the day is harmful for them.
But if parents from abroad moved to Britain to an area where play dates are the norm, even if they think it is a weird formal way of children playing together, they will affect their kids social lives and integration if they don't participate.
I know in every country some migrants live in enclaves and do not mix. I can understand that when people have had no choice but to flee their country for safety, but when people have chosen to move to another country, then for your kids sake you do need to try and integrate.
And unless it is about actual harm like child car seats, I don't understand the sense of superiority
parents have about cultural norms around British parenting. I agree with the poster who said moving abroad exposes you to different parenting ideas and you can take on the best of both cultures.

Ariadne, plenty of British parents think if you aren't being pushy with your children, you are neglecting them.

So if I understand correctly, you are saying that if you immigrate to another country then you should embrace and accept all of their culture - standards, way of life, religion etc?
It's not happening much in this country is it? I don't see every immigrant here speaking English, raising their children to our culture and ways of life. Why as a nation are we always expected to just suck up other people's way of life and forget about our culture?

I kind of know what you mean OP but it's definitely not limited to British people. I have nothing against people discussing the differences in education/parenting and of course the comparison won't always be favourable to the new country. There are people (of all nationalities) though who think if kids start schools at 2.5/4/5/6/7 or go to bed at 6/7/8/9/10 in their country this is the exact best way without actually thinking about why and won't stop moaning that people abroad do it differently.

One gifted pal, where did I say That? My post underneath yours directly contradicts the idea that if you move to another country you should parent exactly as they do.

There is no anti-immigrant climate here in the United States. There is an anti illegal immigrant climate - hence the need for the wall or some other means of stopping the illegal crossings of the southern border...

..I am an American right-winger

You certainly are, AmeriAnn

My experience of being a legal immigrant in the US is probably completely different from your 'American right winger' perspective.

White, English-speaking Americans tend to make unguarded remarks to me because I am also white and English-speaking, and maybe they assume I share their racism and bigotry.

America was built by slaves.
It was built by people who appropriated the land of the original inhabitants, drove them off it, and committed genocide in the process. Then there was the Mexican War, known in Mexico as the American Intervention in Mexico, that resulted in American 'territorial expansion' at the expense of Mexico - much of the south west and California changed hands, iirc. More theft...

The immigrants who streamed to America in the colonial era were not vetted, nor were any of those who arrived up to the eve of WW2 apart from a medical check. Many starving Irish were turned away, only to die in terrible conditions in Grosse Isle in Canada.

Those arriving in the US before the 1960s were mostly white though, because official policy was racist. That is , apart from Mexican and Central American agricultural labourers, who were welcome because they provided the cheap labour that made food affordable. America has always been a country where the rich exploit the poor and then run laughing all the way to the bank while telling the gullible middle classes and working class that their problems are due to 'illegal immigrants'. If you are seeing a lot of dead bodies along the roads, look to meth and the opioid epidemic for an explanation, fueled by the greed of the pharmaceutical industry and home grown criminality. If you think the flow of illegal drugs into the US causes crime problems, maybe look at US policies abroad that contributed to the breakdown of society, the impoverishment of farmers, the establishment of corrupt governments which facilitated the rise of criminal drug cartels, while the US government smiled benignly because they were right wingers too.

Asians and Africans were not welcome unless they arrived as slaves or indentured workers and there were restrictions on naturalisation until 1965. Is that what you call vetting?
Followed of course by the wholesale incarceration of Japanese American families during WW2.

What you are really saying, with your emphasis on the southern border, is that brown-skinned, Spanish-speaking immigrants are a problem. Not the white ones who arrive by plane illegally.

On this day when once again a gunman invaded a synagogue and murdered a worshiper, I think you should perhaps ask for your execrable post to be removed.

I'm not sure I agree to be honest, living part-time in a little town in Spain I see the families with kids integrating the most. It's the older people who don't adapt in the same way. I parent differently in England because of how we live in Spain so have adapted in both locations, much prefer the culture in Spain to the UK - especially the attitude to children. The British kids are out enjoying the fiestas at 2am just as much as the Spanish kids are - don't see any difference between the British and Spanish families - the weather forces you to adapt, the cultural differences are just a bonus.

@silvercoooku I doubt it has anything to do with that, none of my sons classmates swear, they are all very well behaved children from good families who I doubt are say there watching Jeremy Kyle or whatever you’re imagining. How rude of you to make such inaccurate generalisations about a group of families.

Hi OP. I don't have kids yet, though i must admit when i first moved out of the UK i found a few things a bit strange and I had lots of 'social services need to be told about this' moments etc..

I knew from the first post that this was about bedtimes

The British in general are very very strict about bedtimes, to be fair.

So if I understand correctly, you are saying that if you immigrate to another country then you should embrace and accept all of their culture - standards, way of life, religion etc?

I don't think you did understand correctly. In fact, OP did explicitly say

I am not saying they should parent exactly how the locals do

I think many of us believe the way we were raised or where we are from is the "correct" way if doing things. It's just natural. Me and my British bf are thinking about having kids and I'm worried I have to raise them the British way and I'm sure social services will be taking it away from me very quickly. My bf on the other hand is very confused on the way kids are raised my my home country. It's not better but it is just what I'm used to and seem "right" way for me.

Never experienced this. Lived in three different countries.

These are the rules.

Children from abroad living in the UK adopt British middle class rules of upbringing.

Children from UK living abroad continue to live according to British middle class rules of upbringing.

This is the law. Amen.

(LOL)

Things I think are grim/weird but seem to be common practice in various places outside the UK:

• universal use of dummies
• babies with pierced ears
• babies wearing jewellery
• leaving babies in prams outside cafes while the parents drink coffee inside
• circumcision of all baby boys even if no religious reasons

However, whatever I think I keep my mouth shut, as it’s none of my business really. I dare say other cultures think it’s weird I put my kid to bed at 7.30pm...

I've parented in the UK, Brazil and USA. I've known similarities and differences between people in all of those places, I couldn't say what's uniquely British, Brazilian or American about parenting. I can only say that everyone has similarities and differences between social groups, races and cultures and many times those vary greatly within those groups.

Education is a different matter as that is more structured and universal than parenting styles. I personally prefer the American schools over the other two for various reasons, but those are based on the schools my children attend now and have attended, there are better and worse options depending on areas, school and ethos within all of those countries.

Stereotyping is useless

I live in Germany and it's definitely not just brits who moan and do stuff their own way.
Italians, Romanians, Canadians and Americans definitely moan. A lot. Ime.
My DH is not a Brit. He's from a neighbouring country with many similarities. We do some stuff the local way and some the UK way, some his country's way.
I think a lot depends on how long you are going to be staying. Lots of families move every couple of years.

Thankfully we get more Dummy users than thumb suckers in the UK as well and there are places where you can just leave your baby asleep in the pram outside whilst you go in and enjoy a cup of coffee, although personally I prefer sitting outside with my baby (can’t stand prams inside coffee shops) :)

I’m on your page as far the ear piercing & wearing of jewellery goes ...

I moved to NZ partly because of the more 'free range' style. I do however pick and choose as family violence, teen suicide and bullying rates here are the worst in the developed world. Isn't that how progress and change happens, by picking the best bits and moving forward with them? However I don't moan about how others raise their kids. I tend to assume the the majority of people are doing the best they can with the knowledge and resources available to them at the time.