Being punished at work during a really difficult time

[Habbs]

28 weeks pregnant and having a difficult couple of weeks. Some issues were flagged up at a growth scan, I opted for an amniocentesis, no results yet but been told to prepare myself. I'm obviously devastated and have been a mess since it all happened.

I left work to go to the scan, with it being taken as an ante-natal appointment and to go back afterwards, obviously after getting bad news and spending a long time talking to the consultant I over ran until my office had shut.

I didn't sleep at all that night, I suffer from anxiety anyway and this just made me a complete wreck. I text my manager in the morning saying I wouldn't be in, just explaining I had some concerns with my pregnancy and that I was very upset. He replied saying "You know policy Habbs, sorry but I need a phone call" I didn't feel up to it but I know it's procedure so I rang, within 30 seconds I was hysterical which I know is embarrassing as a grown woman/supposed professional but I'm just a wreck with it all. I ended up having to end the call because I couldn't speak I was so upset. I text and said I'm so sorry, I'm really struggling to hold myself together enough to speak about it. No reply.

I had the amnio the next day, I didn't want to text again so I emailed his work address just to explain I was having an amnio, that I'm sorry for not being more professional and that once I knew more I'd be in touch properly. Thanked him for understanding and apologised for leaving the team short for the remainder of the week. No reply.

It's been a few days since, I've been home with DH just in bits. Every now and then it just hits me and I panic and cry. I'm barely sleeping and having a lot of panic attacks. Manager hadn't been in touch since and I thought it was understood that I was just having a few days to deal with everything.

I've had an email now with a letter attached about a disciplinary hearing for a week unauthorised absence due to 'lack of adequate contact' and it's really hurt me. I've never done anything like this before but I'm really struggling, I tried to speak to him and couldn't pull myself together enough. It just seems such insensitive timing to do this when I've got a lot on my plate waiting for results. I'm not sure what to do? I know companies have policies but surely for something like this you would give people a little bit of slack? I'm already so worried about my baby and now I'm worried about my job too.

Possibly the manager didn’t get the email due to it going to the spam file, manager not checking his emails properly etc.

As someone said upthread, it’s the apparent lack,of communication which is the problem (even though you tried), and not the reason.

I’m sure the disclipinery won’t amount to much and is just procedure.

Hope you are feeling better now,

Unfortunately, your right to self-certify only took you up to Monday of this week, so you needed a doctor's note from Tuesday. By tomorrow, you'll be on to your tenth day of self-certifying.

I would be going to the hearing to try and salvage the situation.

Yes. I know you're afraid of breaking down but, honestly, it's probably for the best - they are human and they will understand. When I was young I had a disciplinary for something that was very definitely my fault, with none of your extenuating circumstances, and which they probably could have fired me for. I was honest in the hearing about how sorry I was, and I cried, and they basically said they were letting me off with a written warning because they could see I was genuinely upset and contrite at what I'd done.

I think if you go and tell them the truth and they can see how much you're suffering at the moment, everything will be okay. In your shoes I would probably ask that they make an exception and allow you to email, if you copy in both your manager and HR and do it each day before 8am or something. That sounds reasonable to me.

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles OP, and I hope you get some good news soon.

If I understand it correctly, the sequence of events is as follows:

Monday - you did not return to work after an appointment (having said you would?), no contact made with the office.

Tuesday - you called in, however it was a non-working day for you anyway.

Weds - you emailed but did not call in (if your contract stipulates a phone call every day, this would not be adequate contact).

Thurs - no contact at all.

Fri - bank holiday

Monday - bank holiday

Tuesday - non-working day

Weds - no contact, email from work.

If you had said you would return to work on Monday, then assuming you can self-certify for 5 days, even with adequate contact (per company policy), would only take you up to Friday, as technically Monday would have been the beginning of your absence.

If not, and Weds was your first official absence (Tues being your non-working day), then 5 days of self-cert would take us up to Tuesday, a non-working day, hence Weds being the trigger for this email being sent.

It seems like they are following policy to the letter, as is their right, and I'm afraid it sounds like you've fallen short of your obligations to ring in every day.

If I were you, I would get a doctor's letter, which can be backdated (I had a backdated one last year after catching flu), send it to HR the second you get home, and then attend the meeting. If possible, take someone for support. They would have to be shockingly callous to take any further action under the circumstances, but it's likely you will have to make sure you follow policy extremely closely in future.

HaventGotAllDay we are in AIBU... it would be safer on the employment board...

I've never ever had to phone in sick on bank hols or my non working day. That's never been asked or expected of me. This is obviously a very new situation to me. My boss is grade A wanker this entire pregnancy, had another thread with various issues from him a few weeks ago and I'm not saying I've handled the situation perfectly but I find it disgusting to ignore my last two emails, he's not once actually acknowledged what I'm going through, made any well wishes and to then slap me with a hearing without so much as a text to see if I'm ok, if my baby is ok, anything. Cried my eyes out to DH tonight and at this point I've had my qualifying week for mat pay, I've got a year off anyway im tempted to just hand my notice in, get signed off and cut my losses. The lack of compassion I have been treated with this pregnancy is disgusting, he's already trying to performance manage me out due to my pregnancy (which I had to go to HR about in the other thread) and if the worst happens and my baby doesn't make it I hate to think what he'll come out with next. I'm emotionally drained and right now my attention should be on my baby not some man with no kids, so no understanding of what I'm going through and no compassion

Gah going to stop posting because AIBU and being this emotional isn't a good combo and I will take everything far too personally. Thanks for all the different opinions.

that once I knew more I'd be in touch properly

But they had no idea how long that would be as you didn’t contact them again.

What is this UK fascination with calling when you're sick? In Australia, text / email is fine. Well fine until the place you work import some stupid woman from the UK who insists you call if you're sick. Lordy help me I couldn't call the right number either! A voicemail on her work phone was apparently wrong, I had to call her mobile, which she wouldn't answer, so I'd leave a voicemail.

Personally I get really ticked off when people call me when they're hysterical. My mother is one for it. No point in calling if you are incoherent.

None of that helps you though. I think you need to accept that an email saying you'll be in touch when you know more is very insufficient. At worst your husband could have called your manager to explain the issues and your fragility and anxiety and given a reasonable timeframe for you to be away and an indication of when you would next contact. Having someone be a no show with no idea on when they're returning is very unfair on the rest of the people you work with.

This sounds a pretty horrid way to deal with an employee op. I'm an employment lawyer & I'd never advocate doing this. I act for some pretty harsh employers too.

I would send an email explaining the current situation in full, from the day of the appointment onwards, that you tried ringing but you were so upset you couldn't speak & you are doing your best.

I would also get yourself a fit note for the full period of absence & explain what is happening now in terms of hospital care etc. I would also explain how long you expect you may be off work & ask them to tell you if they need you to do anything else/provide any more information.

If you are not in a fit state to be at work don't attend a disciplinary hearing just get yourself signed off. It sounds as though you have enough on your plate at the moment.

You employer could very easily have dropped you a kind email & enquired how you were & reminded you of what they needed. Nobody needs an employee to ring up & cry down the phone because of their policy having to be applied so rigidly.

I would just say don't sit on it. Do it straight away, leave it in draft for a few hours, check it, try & take the emotion out of it & then send it. Good luck op xx

Hi OP

I think it's a very tricky situation and I'm sorry you're going through it.

I guess if they stick to the letter of the law then they aren't unreasonable. I'd doubt le check their policy. For example ours is to ring the first day with an idea of how long you'll be off, and give regular updates (daily unless its clearly going to be longer than a day for example the flu or hospital stay in which case regular calls is advised)

By the letter of the policy you may have not complied if you are supposed to ring every day for example. But I think it's very very harsh to apply it absolutely to someone who is clearly distraught to the point where they can't speak.

You did attempt to call but it didn't go well so you understandably didn't call again

Your manager replied by text to ask you to call so I would say its reasonable that you expected him to do the same again if he wanted you to call again

I'd be asking why he ignored other ways of you staying in touch and also didn't try and suggest a solution when he already knew you were finding it hard to speak. There MUST be a back up for this situation for example its not unheard of for someone with a throat infection to lose their voice -would they get a disciplinary for not talking on the phone? Why didn't he try and work with you on this?

I'd point out that Monday you were having a pregnancy related appointment. Wednesday morning you were having a pregnancy related appointment. So it was only Wednesday afternoon and Thursday you were off without calling before you knew there was an issue. That's 1.5 working days.

I would really hope they wouldn't sack a pregnant lady going through an awful time over not following procedure for 1.5 days.

I would accept there was some mis communication and ask them what they would like you to do in the future if you're too upset to talk and take on board anything they say.

I'd really try and make the meeting to get these points across and show willing. However I'd take a trusted colleague or friend or union rep in with you - tell them everything you want to get across first so that they can speak up for you if you get too upset. HR will be used to people crying. It will also show them you weren't faking. You could always ask for it to be somewhere more neutral away from your main office (or for example if you have meeting rooms on a different floor) and not including the manager that upset you if that would help

Sorry you've got to deal with all this at once and good luck

OP so if i’m reading this right you have only actually “missed” one day of work without being in contact?

I know the self certifying rules don’t take this into account; but from a “following work policy” POV, the fact that with previous absences you haven’t been picked up for not calling in on your day off may actually help you here - surely they’d need to explain why this circumstance is different to last time? Especially as your boss made zero effort to call either Thursday or today and must surely have started the procedure/sent the letter on Tuesday (your non working day anyway) to have the letter get there today?

I highly doubt that any diciplinary procedure would stick under these circumstances. Definitely something to discuss with ACAS.

What does your contract actually say about sickness procedure?

OP, you have gone over the amount of days you can self-certify which is very likely to have triggered an automated system in work, possibly in payroll/HR. You will need to be signed off by the GP for this to be recognised as sick leave after the first seven days and this includes non-working days such as weekends and bank holidays.

See what the GP can do tomorrow. Don't panic in the meantime. But if you don't want to ring in and that's what the policy requires, you could ask if you could contact them in a different way while you are off (you'd need their agreement though, don't assume it's OK if you don't hear from them so ask for confirmation).

As I said, it could be an automatic pay-related trigger on their system that is activated when you go over the self-cert period as you have in this instance.

As a pp has said that the 7 days you can self certify for do include days that your'e not due to work. So if your first day of sickness is on the Monday, you can only self certify until the following Monday, even if you only worked Mondays.

It also sounds as though you weren't very clear with how long you would be off. You said on the Tuesday that you wouldn't be in, meaning the for the rest of the week. But did you specify exactly you wouldn't be in all week?

Do you know if your work policy specifies you have to phone in? If that's the case then I really don't think they do need to acknowledge emails or texts as it's not in line with the policy.

Saying all that, I do really feel for you and do think they're being terribly insensitive. When you're going through such a tough time, work generally is the last thing on your mind. It is up to them though to use their discretion how much they stick to the policies. I'm sorry your'e in such a predicament

Pinacolado
You have an obligation to inform your manager at the earliest possible time, and ideally before the start of your normal working day/shift, of any temporary absence due to sickness or otherwise so as to enable* employer to arrange emergency cover* if applicable. You should also attempt to indicate the number of days you expect to be absent from work due to sickness.

That's all it says in my contract besides some faff about sick pay.

This sounds discriminatory to me.

I'm sorry for what you're going through, but I do think that you could have got your dp to contact your manager once you'd been told that a phone call was required. You could still have cried down the phone atim but if your dp had explained a bit about what was happening then they'd have probably given you a lot more slack.

Get dp to call if you can't do it yourself after your gp appt tomorrow, and take it from there.

I hope things improve for you.

Don’t resign, if anything go on Mat leave for the year from now and enjoy your time away from it all.

I’d still attend the meeting, write everything down - factual and let it be on record.

They are being harsh. I was unwell and knew by 5am I wouldn't be in. I was due in first thing and panicked about people not knowing until I was due in as nobody gets there before me. So I sent a text to my 3 managers and to the group message
Had my return to work last week and manager said "policy is to ring in", I explained my logic and he said "well.. I wasn't at my desk so I missed your call"

Problem solved

OP I've been where you are in a pregnancy and understand the worry. I hope you get a kind result. I'm sorry to say that as in your opinion your employer has already attempted to performance manage you out this is likely another attempt to remove you for another reason. If it were me and I could afford to do so I would simply quit. Better for baby not to be stressed. If you can't leave as you need your maternity pay, I'd get signed off for as long as possible tough it out then leave after maternity. Explain the situation to your doctor.

Jon65 Wed 24-Apr-19 22:26:01
This sounds discriminatory to me.

Please elaborate. Policy needs to be followed for all sickness including pregnancy related.

Who could it possibly discriminate against?

My work policy states we have to phone in every day of self cert sick leave.

Hi @Habbs- I think people have been a bit ott on here on whether you should follow policy.

I did go through similar myself at 13 weeks so I know how difficult it is to have voice to voice contact when you really just want to hide away. And at a later stage of pregnancy it must be really tough.

I say your boss is a complete and utter twat, and really you’ll be well rid of this job anyway. You’ll find another and please think about more important things.

Wish you the best of luck for good results from your amnio