Being punished at work during a really difficult time

[Habbs]

28 weeks pregnant and having a difficult couple of weeks. Some issues were flagged up at a growth scan, I opted for an amniocentesis, no results yet but been told to prepare myself. I'm obviously devastated and have been a mess since it all happened.

I left work to go to the scan, with it being taken as an ante-natal appointment and to go back afterwards, obviously after getting bad news and spending a long time talking to the consultant I over ran until my office had shut.

I didn't sleep at all that night, I suffer from anxiety anyway and this just made me a complete wreck. I text my manager in the morning saying I wouldn't be in, just explaining I had some concerns with my pregnancy and that I was very upset. He replied saying "You know policy Habbs, sorry but I need a phone call" I didn't feel up to it but I know it's procedure so I rang, within 30 seconds I was hysterical which I know is embarrassing as a grown woman/supposed professional but I'm just a wreck with it all. I ended up having to end the call because I couldn't speak I was so upset. I text and said I'm so sorry, I'm really struggling to hold myself together enough to speak about it. No reply.

I had the amnio the next day, I didn't want to text again so I emailed his work address just to explain I was having an amnio, that I'm sorry for not being more professional and that once I knew more I'd be in touch properly. Thanked him for understanding and apologised for leaving the team short for the remainder of the week. No reply.

It's been a few days since, I've been home with DH just in bits. Every now and then it just hits me and I panic and cry. I'm barely sleeping and having a lot of panic attacks. Manager hadn't been in touch since and I thought it was understood that I was just having a few days to deal with everything.

I've had an email now with a letter attached about a disciplinary hearing for a week unauthorised absence due to 'lack of adequate contact' and it's really hurt me. I've never done anything like this before but I'm really struggling, I tried to speak to him and couldn't pull myself together enough. It just seems such insensitive timing to do this when I've got a lot on my plate waiting for results. I'm not sure what to do? I know companies have policies but surely for something like this you would give people a little bit of slack? I'm already so worried about my baby and now I'm worried about my job too.

She only rang in once, hasn't properly communicated with work since

She missed one day, other than yesterday when she may have received the disciplinary letter before having chance to communicate.

I think her DH should have called in for her but seriously I know nobody who is expected to call in sick on days they don't work or public holidays!

I am so glad that in my 40 years of work - public/private/international organisations/tinpot companies - I have never come across managers/HR unable to use their discretion ln a situation like this when someone is going through a terrible time.

People are missing the policy she posted that didnt mention having to phone in!

She made contact via text and email!

Leadership by strict adherence to policy is not leadership. It is pretty shabby management that definitely won’t get the best out of the employees.

There was no policy requirement to phone.
The manager knew how distressed she was.
Why make it worse? I’d be very, very unhappy if one of my managers treated their team this - luckily they don’t and tend to over-protectiveness.

I think her DH should have called in for her but seriously I know nobody who is expected to call in sick on days they don't work or public holidays!

No, but she was due in yesterday and didn't contact her job - that's a serious disciplinary offence in most places as it qualifies as an unauthorised absence.

She rang in to say she was going to be off last week - fine. But you can only self-certificate for seven days. She's now been off much longer and hasn't made further contact with work. I sympathise with her predicament but she's still broken absence procedure.

You can't have one rule for one person and a different rule for everyone else.

YANBU, I swear we are regressing with women's rights. You are not being 'pathetic' OP but your workplace is being completely unreasonable.

Sick days can’t legally ‘count’ when you’re pregnant. So if they were to say fire you because you ‘took too many sick days’ that would be wrongful dismissal/unlawful. You are entitled to days off for hospital appointments. I had a link but lost it so please look it up, it will really help you!

They are not trying to sack the op - the email mentioned lack of contact. The OP will probably get in touch after seeing the GP.

Pregnancy is a protected characteristic so they could potentially find themselves in hot water if they handle this badly.

Do you have a union rep you can take along to the meeting with you? Alternatively Acas have a very useful website and possibly also a helpline for general employment dispute advice.

Good lord. The misunderstanding on here is mind boggling. She's not being dismissed, nor is this about how many days absense she's had. It's about the fact she has past the point of self certifying. Has no doctors note. Did not turn up to work yesterday, and did not contact them in any way shape nor form to let them know yesterday.

They clearly used discretion last week. Where she failed to return after Monday's appt then emailed to say she was taking the rest of the week off. At no stage has she said she'd also be off this week. It's reasonable for them to expect her to turn up yesterday or let them know she wasn't going to be, and to have a sick note from the doctor.

As much as I personally think moving to disciplinary is harsh, there is clearly a reason they are doing this. We do not know their view of the op as an employee, there could be issues in the past, we don't know what kind of company this is, and we don't know how many issues they have previously had with employees not turning up, which may have caused them to normally be zero tolerance, but have shown some lenience for the op last week.

If they would also bring a man in for disciplinary if he went awol without communication, had no doctors note, then it would not be discrimination. And it's unlikely they are viewing this as gross misconduct and wishing to fire her. It's likely at worst it will be a verbal warning to ensure she follows policy and lets them know if she's not coming in, how many days she expects roughly to be off, and to have a sick note after the seven days, as per her contract.

No matter how many people think it's unreasonable for them to expect these things, they are within their rights to expect them.

Sick days can’t legally ‘count’ when you’re pregnant. So if they were to say fire you because you ‘took too many sick days’ that would be wrongful dismissal/unlawful. You are entitled to days off for hospital appointments. I had a link but lost it so please look it up, it will really help you!

That's not why they have contacted her though, it's because she's not made contact in over a week. OP told them that she would be off the rest of last week. Monday was a BH, Tuesday she wasn't due in but if the email was sent yesterday then it sounds like OP didn't call in then either. Being pregnant doesn't mean that you can ignore policies. Also, sick days related to pregnancy don't count, sick days related to other illnesses do.

Sick days not “counting” when you’re pregnant (counting for what?) isn’t a licence to swan in and out as and when you please, without informing anyone else what’s happening.
You still need to be signed off by a gp when you’re ill. And you still need to follow the communication rules set by the company.
Op has not done either of these things, so posters telling her not to worry because she’s pregnant so it doesn’t matter are not actually doing her any favours.

At no stage has she said she'd also be off this week. It's reasonable for them to expect her to turn up yesterday or let them know she wasn't going to be, and to have a sick note from the doctor.

Yes this is the key point, it doesn't seem like it's anything to do with phoning vs emailing. OP emailed her manager last week about leaving the team short for the week (not exactly clear but you can assume this means she won't be in the rest of the week).

So understandably her manager yesterday expected OP to either be back at work or have another update with details about being signed off. OP didn't do any of these things and it's not been made clear in her posts why she didn't contact her manager yesterday morning if she wasn't going to be in.

Good lord. The misunderstanding on here is mind boggling

Yes. This thread seems to be mostly about emoting, getting shouty, and not remotely being helpful. I really hope that a) the OP's pregnancy is okay and b) she doesn't listen to much of the ridiculous 'advice' she's been given.

OP, if you come back, just read @Bluntness100 's posts and save yourself a lot of time, confusion, and misinformation

Agreed it is about the sick note. I was threatened with disciplinary proceedings when off on long term sick because I was too ill to deliver the latest line (I was going to week because I was determined to go back - but then always found I was too ill).

I apologiedfor my tardiness, got a relative to hand deliver the note and no more was said.

They knew I was very ill, but the process just kicked in.

'Your manager is a dickhead. At the very least he needs some further training. If I were you I would get myself signed off and email HR with a full account of what you have said here.'

This

Fgs there's some jobsworths on here who must've said 'it's policy!!' a thousand times. Yes it is, but a good manager will use their discretion and what kind of fuckwit instigates a disciplinary on someone who was clearly distressed when they did ring.

Op I hope you're ok . I hope you got signed off from you gp. Get hr to bollock your manager for adding to your distress.

Disciplinaries would surely be arranged after return to work/gathering of facts.

Get HR to bollock your manager . God, will you stop talking nonsense? The manager will just be implementing policies set by HR.
There will be no “getting” anybody to do anything; op is not running this show.

but a good manager will use their discretion

FFS

It's been said over and over, that in many companies a manager isn't ALLOWED to use their discretion. They're often not allowed to call the person who's off, and it may well not be the manager who's called her in.

Given the circumstances, I think it's far more likely that she happens to work for a company that has strict and non-negotiable rules, than that the person who heard her cry is out to get her.

Fgs there's some jobsworths on here who must've said 'it's policy!!' a thousand times. Yes it is, but a good manager will use their discretion and what kind of fuckwit instigates a disciplinary on someone who was clearly distressed when they did ring.

So how long should the manager wait to hear from OP? From the email she sent, manager rightly assumed that OP would be back yesterday but there was obviously no contact. Should the manager wait until the end of this week? End of next week? Let her be off indefinitely with no contact?

No decent human would demand some stuck to "policy" when a baby could be at risk. What a total fucking arsehole.......

I would play this carefully OP and it could work out in your favour. Go to GP - emergency appt. Print off all correspondence with wanker manger and see if you can get a letter or something from midwife.

I would go to that bloody disciplinary and cry my eyes out. I would take all of the stuff with me - any btw your contract that you referred to does not say you have to call in, so unless there is another policy, hes talking shit. I would explain what has happened and the impact on you. And if there was a slight wind of them trying to get rid of me, I would say I felt discriminated against becuase I was pregnant.

I think he would be most fortunate to not face disciplinary himself tbh for treating you different because you are pregnant. They could find themselves in hot water if they dont deal with this properly.

Of course there are guidleines and protocols but no person on earth would think that your efforts were unreasonable. Get all your stuff sorted first as evidence to back yourself up. Im so sorry you have to worry about this NONSENSE!, when you need to be thinking about your baby ....

Oh and a good manager would have gone to HR and asked how to help you deal with this, not throw the fucking policy in your face

'Oh and a good manager would have gone to HR and asked how to help you deal with this, not throw the fucking policy in your face'

Exactly.

Most of us here I presume have been in a position where they deal with staff and sickness. There is no 'policy' that would have any manager with a braincell instigate a disciplinary on a pregnant member of staff undergoing tests.

Sweet baby Jesus...it's like a madness has descended.

Oh bluntness calm down for goodness sake. 'Sweet baby jesus'

I think he would be most fortunate to not face disciplinary himself tbh for treating you different because you are pregnant. They could find themselves in hot water if they dont deal with this properly.

@DelphicOracle How in the manager treating OP different when they are following policy? OP has made no contact in over a week. No phone call. No text. No email. OP was due back at work yesterday as far as manager was aware and just no showed. How long do you expect the manager to wait with NO CONTACT from OP?

Same question to @BarbadosBrenda actually. How long would you expect the manager to wait for OP to make contact?

Bluntness you are the voice of sanity on a bonkers thread.