Or is the new series of GOT a bit shit?

[PCBananaHammock]

Just that really... the last two episodes have been so slow!

Does anyone else think Jon Snow has become really pathetic over the last few episodes? Blindly following Dany even though she’s committing atrocities left, right and centre. And all he says is that she’s his queen and he loves her!

Jon from seasons before would have stood up and fought for what is right and fair. Not so much now he’s all starry eyes...

Tyrion has been weak too. I can’t believe he shopped Varys.

Crunch time for both of them. We need to see what they’re made of now.

I don't watch, but many long running series promise so much in the making, and end up disappointing. IMO

It is disappointing to see a series adapted so well initially, end on a sour note. The music has been tremendous thankfully!

S8 is vey choppy, low on explanations and plot. I think GRRM gave D&D all the major happenings and they just included them all without context. It’s pretty obvious they wanted to crack on with their new Star Wars gig but the 10 seasons HBO requested would it much more justice.

That said, it’s been 8 years since the last book. I’m not confident GRRM will ever finish the series.

Also I’m still pissed off about what they’ve done to the show version of Euron: the actor would have been awesome if they’d have written his character how he is in the books.
Some arcs like Jaime’s too - pointless journey from selfish shit to decent and back again. Maybe to show that people don’t ever really change or whatever but meh.

The actors comments about the season before it aired are making more sense now. “Best season EVER!” [/sarcasm]

I am foolishly still hoping for a decent ending but if the spoilers I’ve seen are true...

We are finding this series so boring in compared to others that we are playing GOT bingo - 16 names to a card and you cross them off if they die!! The books are so brilliantly written that its clear that this series doesnt follow a book in the same way that others did. also its all so rushed. episode after episode of build up for the night king and oh look hes dead all back to fighting the Lannisters. FWIW i think in the last episode Dany is going to go up to Winterfell on the dragon, burn it down with one or two of the starks in there and this is what will tip Jon over the edge and he will kill her and take the throne. cant see Tyrion lasting especially as he is the last of his house.

I was ok with Cersei's end. She suddenly became raw and vulnerable and I thought it hailed back to classic GoT character traits - not just one dimensional villains vs goodies but complex characters. Weirdly I suddenly identified with her and almost became a bit weepy. But I was mostly gutted that Jaime had to go as well. Also thought it was fine that she had a unglorified death - I was getting a bit peeved at how cheesy/cliched everything was getting so it was sort of refreshing to see a death that ended such a bloody and megalomaniac reign with a quiet snuffing out - it essentially juxtaposed the drama of her power and tyranny against the rawness of her vulnerabilities. It certainly made up for previous criticisms of the battle of Winterfell that it was so unlikely so many characters would survive - far more realistic that they would fall victim to any of the various catastrophes that were befalling the city.

Laurie - Completely agree that the meltdown of Dany and the city was a brilliant turn and explains why the NK had to end at episode 3. Underlines the theme of the pointlessness and brutality of humans (we've just dispatched the biggest threat to mankind and we'll instantly revert to disastrous petty squabbles). I think her descent to madness is the fitting progression of her character arc but the descent was way too steep. Yes there's been hints at it but she essentially went from a little bit sad to batshit in the space of two episodes.

Euron's last line was a bit naff.

The battle scenes are good and I’ve enjoyed those but series 8 has just felt so disconnected from everything that came before, it barely feels like GoT at all. It’s so different and many characters have implausibly changed overnight (not just the obvious one)

The only one I feel hasn’t wavered is Arya.

While I don’t deny that the season (and particularly the last episode or so) has been rushed, Dany going mad queen has been foreshadowed in the books (and show) from the very beginning and considered as a possibility by her and others.

While as ever with D&D the execution is a bit ropey, I’m happy with the direction. Fundamentally the series is a study of power and Danys enormous entitlement was never going to end well.

Some arcs like Jaime’s too - pointless journey from selfish shit to decent and back again. Maybe to show that people don’t ever really change or whatever but meh.

I initially felt like this but I am not sure actually. He went to Winterfell and fulfilled his promise - he did the right thing. He went to Cersei to try to talk her out of it and get her to ring to bells as discussed with Tyrion. But he also loves her. Like isn’t black and white, he did have a great arc and this ending doesn’t diminish the things he has done.

I’m extremely disappointed in Tyrion though - he used to be so clever and now he just does nothing and his plans keeps failing. Couldn’t believe how he ratted out Vayrs too.

Was surprised after their heart to heart Jamie left Tyrion to go to Cersei...
And Dany lost the plot..

I liked it. I was worried after the last one but it felt better. Dany was always going to do this, she’s been threatening to burn her enemies cities to the ground for ages. Her aim always has been to take the throne, no matter the cost. Cersi and Jamie’s ending was perfect too, he always loved her and we got to see a different side to her. It would have been so naff for Arya to kill her. Better she was killed by her ambition and bloody mindedness.

I sobbed when the Hound died

After being gutted with last nights episode I had a dream that Harry Potter turned up in the final episode to save the day. Now that would be a twist!

As a side, the only characters they have stayed true to are Arya and the Hound. Maybe Dany but it’s happened too quickly. The rest they have ruined.

But also the episodes are longer so it’s the equivalent of a 10 episode season - it’s just done differently

YABU to think it's ever been good. it's the jeremy Kyle of entertainment tbh.

Really RomanyQueen1? thats a bit goady isnt it. what did you think of the books? Not sure that GoT has ever led to anyone suffering depression, lack of self esteem, split up families etc.

how many episodes did you watch before you came to this opinion?

ha Ha, wrong thread, so sorry. Not into GOT but know it's not crap

I really can’t stand this series, I was talking to DH about it and it seems like they’ve got an ending they want and don’t care how to get there and whether that means characters aren’t true to their story line

I haven't had huge issues with this season but the last episode felt terribly rushed and was overall disappointing. Jamie's turn was thoroughly unconvincing and even though Dany's madness has been foreshadowed it wasn't a patch on the madness of her brother or what was going on at the Eyrie (moon door). What has made GoT great has been the character development and believable (but not necessarily clear) motivations of the characters. I felt like last night could has been spectacular but it was basically as if everyone turned up for the Red Wedding with minimal reason and were suddenly killed with little consequence.

Dany has always been mad and had some very dark traits and been power hungry from the off.

• she was the 'breaker of chains' but at no point complained when it was her the slaves were running baths for in Pentos or when she was with Khal Drogo.
• although setting the slaves of Mereen etc free she also punished the people living there and took their cities from them.
• her brother may have used her, he was clearly mad too, but she didn't bat an eyelid or care that his head was encased in boiling metal.
• when Khal Drogo died she refused to follow tradition as it was beneath her.
• she only set the unsullied 'free' to use them for her own ends, despite knowing they wouldn't go free because if their conditioning and upbringing.
• she used Jorahs love for her to get her own way, she never loved him in the way he loved her but exploited this for her own ends while flaunting her lovers in front of him (more so in the books)
• in season 2 I believe she spoke about taking over Westeros using fire and blood and wanting to watch them burn
• the Tarlys, need I say more?
• gentrifying Gendry to make her seem more loveable but also keeping any opposition to the throne under the thumb
• the way she treated Jon after finding out about his heritage

To be fair she was fed a lie for her entire life about the people of Westeros wanting her back and had ideas of grandeur which backfired. She also lost the only man she truly loved, suffered a miscarriage, was an orphan who was sold, raped by her brother, watched two of her three replacement children die and her best friend was murdered in front of her.

Grey Worm's development this episode was refreshing. He had always been portrayed as someone with unwaivering control and little emotion, but the death of Missandei obviously had an effect on him and finally showed him as human.

Jon seems a bit wet because he's done. He is sworn to a woman who he can see is unravelling but is too honourable to do anything. He's saved the realm, fulfilled his duties as a man of the Night's Watch (and Lord Commander) and he lost the only woman he truly loved. He doesn't want anything else and is done with needless killing and battles over thrones. His entire existence was a lie and his family has been massacred over a chair that he doesn't want but is constantly forced on him.

sailorcherries

Great post

Thanks crispy sausage rolls

And going a bit further, look at Jamie and Cersei.

Jamie was never going to kill her, ever. Yes he committed pretty unspeakable crimes at the behest of Cersei but in his head it was to protect his family - he pushed Bran because himself, his children and his lover/sister would be killed should anyone know. Anything else he did was as part of his oath as a Kingsguard. That is why he went North. He was always an honourable man, yes he was selfish but he always looked out for his family and those he loved. He also spent years being branded a king slayer when he wasn't, it was the last course of action. He saved the realm and no one knew. He was never going to kill Cersei when he thought there was another way out to keep the peace and his family, his child, safe. I also don't believe Jamie used Brienne. He respected her, he knighted her and for a brief moment he saw a life he could lead but ultimately his love for his family and child won.

Cersei was another victim of circumstance. The only man she wanted, apart from her brother, loved Lyanna Stark. The man she ended up married to also loved Lyanna. No wonder she hated the North. Everything else, her descent in to madness, was to protect her children. She lived her life by a prophecy which foretold the death of her children and she desperately tried to undo this at every turn. Her walk of shame was for Tommen. Killing Robert and Jon Arryn to protect her children and her secret. Siding with and sleeping with Euron was to save her baby. Even in those last moments, surrendering and then fleeing, it was for her child.

And last one, I promise.

I've always wondered whether Benjen Stark knew of Jon's parentage. It was always said that Ned told no one but Benjen would be different. As a man on the NW he was not to get involved in issues surrounding the throne and we know the Starks honour their vows. It just seemed like he made Jon want to join the NW and as the rightful heir to the throne the NW was the safest place for him to be once Ned was gone - he was no longer a threat to Robert as he couldn't hold titles or lands. I also have a feeling that they (Ned and Benjen) knew that Master Aemon was a Targaryn and it was a nice way of letting Jon be close to his family (and I have a feeling Aemon knew who Jon was).

You’ve got a lot of nails on the head there sailorcherries.

I also don't believe Jamie used Brienne. He respected her, he knighted her and for a brief moment he saw a life he could lead but ultimately his love for his family and child won.

I love this! So true!

Re Cersei - let’s not forget she was supposed to originally marry one of the dashing young Targaryens (I think Rhaegar?) but was then deemed unworthy. Pretty horrible.

For some reason people expect the convenient and happy endings but i just don’t see how there were any other options available for these characters - it isn’t the spirit of the show.