In thinking DD is too young to give up work to stay at home

[MrsJenB]

Firstly to make it clear this is not being anti SAHM in fact I've been an SAHM since DD was born which she's saying makes me a hypocrite!

Bit of background DD is 24 and graduated from uni summer 2017. In her 1st year she met a man who was then in 3rd year and has been with him since, they got married in August. DD is now pregnant and has said she intends to give up work and not go back and they want to have a family of 3/4 kids going forward. Income isn't a problem for her as our son in law is a bit of a high flyer and in a high paying industry where he's already earning a lot and his earning potential is very high. DD is very junior in a very different kind of industry.

AIBU to still be a bit uncomfortable with her deciding to stop work at her age? She says I wouldn't be saying anything if she was 5 years older but they're ready so what's the difference. I get the feeling this is coming from son in law a bit though from some of what she's said such as him saying there's no point her working when his salary is mainly what they live on anyway and that hers doesn't make any difference anyway. That might well be true but smells a bit of calling it pocket money. DH isn't 100% on board but isn't really concerned either saying it's good she's passionate about being a mum and wanting a family. I think she's in for a bit of a shock when she realises it's more sleepless nights, changing stinky nappies and having to deal with all the responsibility all day especially with son in law working long hours and probably longer as his career progresses so not there a lot for support, not some "yummy mummy" lifestyle some of her social media posts make me think she expects. I don't think she realises how isolating it could be and how demanding even though I've told her and she says she knows. I think my DH doesn't realise either as he always worked quite long hours which maybe is why he isn't as concerned. And none of DD's friends are likely to have kids right now either so it could be even more of a challenge for her. Of course I'll support her whatever but AIBU to be worried and want her to think a bit more about the decisions?

SAHM here. I think it's lovely she's putting her children first. Kids don't just need a role model they also need love and care from parents. You yourself said dad works long hours...set to get longer. It's wonderful your daughter is realising that she will be taking on the majority of childcare and getting in a position to be able to do that. If/when she chooses to go back to work she'll find something that fits in with her family. She's an intelligent woman. Trust her to make he own decisions.

@SandyY2K
YANBU...but you didn't set the example and you weren't a role model for female financial independence and empowerment yourself
It seems you have a pretty narrow view of female empowerment. I think it's clear that OP's DD actively wants to fulfill a long held desire to stay at home to raise her children as a SAHM. She clearly views it as important and something she wants to prioritise and is lucky enough to be in a position where this is an option for her. How is her situation any less of an example of female empowerment than the many women (and men) who would also love to be at home with their children but have to work? Working is also no guarantee of financial independence in the way you imply. Lots of people despite maintaing professional careers are dependent on their partners to maintain a reasonable standard of living.

I would be disappointed if it was my DD, but she's more likely to listen, as my DDs have always known me to work
I'm not sure it always works that way. I know quite a few of my SAHM friends chose to be a SAHM precisely because their parents were both FT WOHPs and they didn't find this ideal from a child's perspective.

At the end of the day it's her life. If nappy changing, toddlers groups and not seeing other adults most of the day suit her...so be it
Yes because being a SAHM is always like that. Sneery much

I just hope she doesn't end up like so many women, who watch their DH progress and then get dumped for some career focused OW
I just hope she doesn't end up like so many women (and men), who get to the end of their lives and wish they had spent more time with their children whilst they were young...

Both scenarios could happen so it's for OP's DD to make a decision on the risk she is happiest to take.

I think if you have no inclination to be a SAHP and don't place any emphasis or value on the role then it can be really hard to understand the choices and sacrifices that others make in order to be SAHPs. It isn't inherently wrong or inferior to be a SAHM and you aren't right or superior to be a WOHM.

How your daughter and her husband choose to manage their family is absolutely none of your business. End of.

"It's wonderful your dd is realising she will be taking on the majority of the childcare" I hope you are taking the piss?

I’d strongly urge you to support her. You’ve made your opinion clear and that’s all you can do - anything else is going to push her away.
FWIW I’m 37 now, I was married and pregnant at 24, own home etc, I gave up work and have been a SAHM mum until fairly recently to my kids. I now work from home.

Despite being academically really successful and enjoying my job in the short time between graduation and pregnancy, I never doubted staying at home. It wasn’t a sacrifice for me, it was what I wanted and I was lucky I had the choice.

Dh and I have been together since we were v young and we’ve always had joint finances etc - we’ve never had his and hers money. I know some people urge against that but it’s worked for us and I’m as sure as I can be that it’ll keep working.

Be there for your dd and don’t make her feel like she has to prove you wrong or that you’re judging her. No doubt there will be hard times but it is eminently possible that she will have a happy and fulfilled life at home.

I don't think it's none of her business, we don't stop being a parent or caring about our children's lives when they marry and have children of their own. op isn't going to stop her daughter doing what she wants. She is allowed to worry her daughter is making good choices..

@Rosieposy4

SandyY2K did say that in as many words actually

I think if you have no inclination to be a SAHP and don't place any emphasis or value on the role then it can be really hard to understand the choices and sacrifices that others make in order to be SAHPs. It isn't inherently wrong or inferior to be a SAHM and you aren't right or superior to be a WOHM.

You're projecting. I don't think anyone here is demeaning the role of a sahm and most of us place value on the role. BUT, at OP's daughter's age and career stage, it's simply risky to make that choice. Part of being a parent is making sure the best choices are made for the family taking into account life possibilities., which is why people get insurance, pay into pensions etc. Should the daughter's husband get ill, lose his job and struggle to get another one, die, and/or end the relationship, then the daughter has made a choice that leaves her family financially vulnerable/screwed. So therefore, balancing all that, many of us think her decision to be a sahm is naive and certainly premature.

On a selfish level for the daughter, if she ever needs to leave her husband, giving up her career this early means she won't have had the chance to build up a personal "fuck-off fund". So in future, she may be stuck in a relationship she's not happy with.

If these are the "sacrifices" you are referring to, then that's martyrhood and just silly.

I fell pregnant at 22 so not dissimilar to your DD. I've been a SAHM since DC1 was born 7 years ago (although did work one day a week for a couple of years running a toddler group, and do voluntary work taking my 2 preschoolers with me.) I've never ever found it boring or had days trapped at home as some people describe. I've been able to make active choices about things such as age gaps between DC and extended term breastfeeding without having practicalities of work to consider. My mum SAH which informed my choice.

I now have 4 DC and DC4 will start school when I'm almost 34. I figure 35 years is plenty of time for me to work...

DH and I have always treated me SAH as a respectable and worthwhile, active and joint choice. We pay into a pension and savings for me and DC to protect me; we share our finances completely with just one joint account. If your SIL is a real high flyer this may well be something they will consider, too.

I am aware that for me, getting back into work will require some form of retraining, or doing an entry level job for some time. I know it might be a shock to all of us when I do return to work, as I've taken up so much slack for so many years (although DH does have flexi time and a WFH arrangement and does one pick up and drop off at school a week already). For me, this trade off will have been worth it a hundred times over to have had the preschool years at home.

I'm not sure it always works that way. I know quite a few of my SAHM friends chose to be a SAHM precisely because their parents were both FT WOHPs and they didn't find this ideal from a child's perspective.

Yeah, I think you're right that people don't just follow the example set by their own parents. I'm sure that a lot of SAHMs do indeed make that choice because their own mothers struggled to find the right balance as working parents - after all, things were a whole lot tougher for working mothers a few decades ago, and it would have been much, much harder for many of our own mothers to balance home and work as effectively as many of us can now.

Similarly, I know a lot of WOHMs who are absolutely determined to maintain their careers after having witnessed the impact on their own mums of staying at home. Many of us choose to do things differently from how our parents did them, and we're often encouraged to avoid making the same mistakes as those in the previous generation. I know my mum would have been devastated if we had made the same choices that she did.

I think a lot of it boils down to individual experience tbh. If your own mum was a SAHM within a stable relationship with no financial problems and found this rewarding and fulfilling, then it's likely that you might consider being a SAHM as a viable option. If, on the other hand, your SAHM parent was bored, frustrated and unfulfilled, and hated not earning her own money, you might feel differently.

And if your WOHM parent was constantly stressed, distracted or just plain absent when you were growing up, you might not think that having two parents with careers is in the best interests of the children. If, on the other hand, you have grown up in a home where both parents are able to balance fulfilling careers effectively with home and family life, you will probably take it for granted that you'll do the same.

FWIW, I don't agree with those who say that the OP is being hypocritical because she was a SAHM herself. Her opinions are based on her own experience, as is the case for most of us. It isn't unreasonable to hope that our children might take a different path to the one that we have trodden. However, for the most part, I think we have to keep those hopes to ourselves and support the choices that our children make for themselves. That's not to say that we shouldn't share our own experiences with our kids, including any regrets that we might have about our lives. Ultimately, though, we have to let them make their own mistakes. And they will....

I think she's in for a bit of a shock when she realises it's more sleepless nights, changing stinky nappies and having to deal with all the responsibility all day especially with son in law working long hours

You are very wrong to think that being a working Mum with a DH who works long hours will be a better option OP.
Will her DH work shorter days and help with the sleepless nights, nappies etc when she goes back to work?
A lot of responsibility will fall on her or a nanny if not. Why would you wish the added pressure of work on her too? When financially, they don't need the money?

@Rach182
I'm not projecting, just pointing out that people put different value and emphasis on different things and this will naturally affect people's priorities and how they view the risk:reward ratio related to different decisions.

If being a SAHM is really important to OP's DD and she sees it as the main thing she wants to do with her life, then it is logical that she will be willing to shoulder the financial and other risks to achieve this goal. Other people with a less pressing desire to be a SAHP may look at the same level of risk (as you have) and consider it to be prohibitive or frankly just not worth it Keep in mind though that there are nearly always ways you can mitigate against risk be it through private pensions, keeping up NI contributions, taking out life insurance etc, so being a SAHP doesn't have to mean financial ruin if something was to go wrong. I would suggest OP encourages her DD to look into this if she is set on being a SAHM.

If these are the "sacrifices" you are referring to, then that's martyrhood and just silly
No, I am not talking about martyrdom when I talk about sacrifice but just that many people find it difficult to "have it all" and this is especially true when there are two competing aspirations such as establishing a career and being a young SAHM. Put simply, something has to give and sacrifices of some kind have to be made somewhere along the line.

Why would you wish the added pressure of work on her too? When financially, they don't need the money?

Perhaps because the OP recognises that work can be about more than just money - e.g. independence, identity, fulfilment etc.

Perhaps because the OP recognises that work can be about more than just money - e.g. independence, identity, fulfilment etc.

Ah, the independence, since of identity, fulfilment! Said no working Mum I know ever.
Maybe being in the type of job which enables the family to pay for additional childcare, cleaning, gardeners etc. helps. Or Grandparents who are willing to help out with sick children...
Otherwise, stress all the way.

@Bumpitybumper

Haha thanks, I knew martyrhood looked wrong written down but couldn't be bothered to think about it!

I agree it's impossible to have it all and am annoyed that this lie is still being sold to girls and young women in the form of books such as 'Lean In' and Hollywood movies. Seems the daughter knows she can't have it all but has made quite an extreme choice.

I agree there's competing interests at any stage but more so at early career stage, so I just can understand why the daughter chose to have children so young. And if being a young mum was her priority, why she didn't start her family while studying instead. But not my uterus so not my business I guess.

I think you are not unreasonable to be concerned, as I think she is choosing a high risk strategy. There isn't much you can do though except be there for her and be as supportive as possible without judging.

I had an established career for about 7 years but became a SAHM after DD2 (and subsequently DD3) was born because childcare costs were more than I earned. I was out of the workplace for 15 years, and it was very difficult to get back in. The last 5 years of that were very stressful, spent trawling for suitable jobs and mostly getting nowhere. My earning potential is now shot even though I am working now.

If I could have my time again I would try not to be out for as long, anyway.

Perhaps your reaction to her decision is coming from experience? Did you feel vulnerable as a SAHM and you don't want her to go through that? I know I did, and I know that my DDs are all reluctant to go through what they saw me go through.

It is normal to feel like that, but there is nothing you can do. She may have made up her mind here. She may change it again when the baby is here, or she may not. She knows that you were a SAHM. It isn't strengthening your case, unfortunately. Whether you are speaking from experience or not.

I understand why you are concerned OP, but you definitely don't want to push your daughter away by making a big deal about it now.

It sounds from your posts like she is (has?) quit her job rather than taking mat leave. I would focus on encouraging her to take the leave as she can always quit whilst on leave if she doesn't want to go back. If she quits, she won't get maternity pay at all - and no matter how well off you are, it is just stupid to turn down extra money.

Also, as someone said previously, make sure she fills in the forms to claim child benefit after the baby arrives, even if her partner earns more than £50k. You can chose to have child benefit paid and then he will need to pay the high earner child benefit charge, or she can chose to not actually be paid the benefit (so he won't have to pay the charge) but just receive the NI credits. That is very important for her state pension. She'll need to do the same form for subsequent children too.

Being a SAHM isn’t just about money. I know mothers who choose to stay home even though they are losing out on earning a high income to do so but personally believe there is a lot of non-monetary value in being home with their kids. I know an equal number of mothers who choose to work even though childcare eats up most of their income and being a WOHM involves a lot of juggling but they are enjoy their careers and value the work they do outside of the home.

There seems to be an assumption among some on this thread that being a SAHM is always the ideal and the only thing that stops women from following it is money. I have been a SAHM but am going back to work in a couple of months because I feel that I am ready to and want to. My income will be irrelevant compared to DH’s but it’s not about money for me.

Also this discussion is about the OP’s 24 year old daughter committing to being a SAHM early in life without building a career based on her qualifications first. That’s a little different to discussing SAHM vs. WOHM generally. She is committing to a life where she finds fulfillment only in family life early on without exploring other options first It could be that being a wife and mother will be all she dreams of in life - who knows? - but making that gamble at 24 with very little life experience is definitely a bigger risk than doing it at e.g. 34 when you’ve worked for a few years, have money of your own and a broad range of experiences.

I know that you're worrying about this because you love her and you want what's best for her, but in the nicest way it really is non of your business. She's happy, she's well educated, and her and her husband have the luxury of being able to afford a sahp. A lot of people would give their right arm to be in that position. They have every right to make this decision as a family.

If your DD was 33 and showed no signs of wanting to start her family, but told you she was adamant she was going to have one, you'd probably be worrying that she was too career focused and might struggle to conceive, and wish she'd started younger.

Having kids young could be great for her - her body is physically in peak form for it, she's got energy because she's young, and by the time she's finished the intense child rearing stage and has the time to go back to work she will still be young enough to have a long career ahead of her and enjoy things, rather than verging on retirement age and missing her chance.

Women are judged so harshly for the decisions that they make in life. It's as if whatever we choose we are wrong. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this because you'll have faced this as much as I have. I completely understand you being concerned for your daughter because you want what's best for her, but maybe try and be a supportive face in the crowd of judgemental people.

Well, White, I guess your social circles may be quite limited. I know tons of working mothers who get great satisfaction and fulfilment from their work.

I work full time and it isn't stress all the way for me at all. Never has been. We don't pay for gardeners/cleaners etc, though I guess we could if we felt it was necessary. We no longer need childcare but we never had to pay for many hours anyway, as we were both able to work very flexibly around each other. Thankfully, dc very rarely sick, but DH or I have usually been able to work from home if we needed to.

Yes, the early years were tough at times, particularly having to function at work after the sleepless nights. However, the baby/toddler years really don't last for long, and the extra pressure in that short period was definitely a sound investment for the future.

And yes, work does give me financial independence, an identity outside the home, clarity of purpose and a sense of accomplIshment. I have a challenging and rewarding job that I really enjoy. I have fabulous colleagues who have become close friends, and with whom I laugh harder than with anyone I know. Work is fun! At the same time, it enables me to use my skills to make a genuine difference to the lives of other people, and that makes me feel great. And I earn a good salary that could comfortably cover our expenses if something happened to DH. I would not give this up, no matter what DH earned.

I am not unique in any of this. I know that most of my colleagues would say the same as we have discussed it previously, and many other women I know feel the same. Work is good for mental health, social networks, self esteem etc. Of course, some people hate their jobs and feel constantly stressed out by trying to juggle everything. But equally, some women can't stand staying at home either.

There are so many variables. We all have to find the set-up that works best for us.

@mymumisbetter
The parents of the child.In a world where so many babies get sent to daycare for 10 hours a day,it's wonderful to know there are still mothers who cherish that bonding time with their children

I'd love to be able to not go back to work, but we can't live on just my DH salary. So yes my child will be in nursery 10 hours a day, doesn't mean I cherish him any less. Its attitudes like yours that make me feel even worse about having to go back to work and leaving my little one.

Her choice. The degree means she can go back to study or get work when she’s ready. Seriously she has made a decision. Why are you trying to change her mind or the very least question her choice. She’s a grown adult. And in a relationship. Leave her be and support her choices/ decisions.

OP, Yanbu.

My dad always taught me to never be financially dependent on someone else – “Not your mother and me, not some man, and certainly not the government,” as he put it. We live in a world where 50 percent of marriages end in divorce and women generally outlive their husbands. It never hurts to look toward the future and plan.

I work with four women in their sixties whose husbands are disabled and unable to hold down jobs. These women are carrying the full financial burdens. Good thing they have their jobs to include medical benefits and retirement plans. Otherwise, they’d be absolutely screwed. It happens.

All that being said, your daughter is an adult and can make her own decisions. All you can do is explain your concerns to her. I don’t agree that you’re being a hypocrite. You are a product of your own experiences.

It's hard enough getting back into the workplace after a few years off with kids when you have an established career, as many women on here will attest to. Let alone before it's really got going. (And she may want to be sahm till kids are grown up but then again she may change her mind or circumstances). YANBU to be worried especially with the attitude of the husband to money...

But yes little you can do now without upsetting things. Encourage her to use mat leave and then she can always not return but at least it leaves the door open.

I think it would be worth asking her what she would do if she became a single parent. Even if her DH is a keeper he could die or become too ill to work.

I'm a SAHM with no immediate plans to return to work and this does bother me but I have assets, a good CV and a contingency plan.

Otherwise... I think there's a lot of cultural pressure on educated women these days to use their education. If being a SAHM is what she wants I don't feel there should be a problem with that.

Education is valuable in itself, it isn't wasted just because she's not climbing the corporate ladder.