PILs

[NCwhatevs]

NC for this

DH’s brother had an affair & left DSIL for his mistress a while back, they are now divorcing. BIL is now shacked up with his mistress. We do not have good relationship with him and he is openly hostile via messages to DH who has kindly tried to keep in touch generally without being positive about his choices, as frankly they have been poor. We are not at this point at all interested in meeting with him and especially not with the OW and therefore certainly didn’t envision DD to do so either.

We have not discussed with our DD why we don’t see her uncle these days because she is young enough (7) to not talk about it specifically.

Today however, after having DD overnight during Easter break (at their request) on the way home, PIL (who have welcomed the mistress already) chose to take DD to BIL’s mistress’s home where she saw BIL for the first time in a long time and met the mistress properly for the very first time.

This was done without us being consulted or present and without context for her as she didn’t know about her uncle and a new partner.

We found out as soon as dd was home as DD spilled all the beans about meeting the OW.

She knows her auntie and uncle are living apart but not any reason why.

We had a massive argument with PILs tonight as we felt they overstepped massively by taking her there and acted completely inappropriately without consulting us as we would definitely have not done that ourselves and are incredibly shocked they chose to do this. It was not their call to make.

They were incredibly hurt by us calling them out on this & we have had a massive argument with them this evening. They have been told from both of us- this is unacceptable - DH has said that he will explain the situation with BIL and the mistress to DD tomorrow in a context she can understand but they have forced us into having to have this conversation with her and we are both so angry.

MiL was unfortunately mean about DSIL tonight who has done nothing and was in no way the cause of the split, and then tried to deflect all their actions today on supporting their other son and instead of taking any culpability in making the introduction to the mistress, told me what a terrible DIL I’ve been to her and how she’s “always wanted a closer relationship” and how hurt she is I never invite her to do things.

Anyway this is a tangent. She was deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere from herself. I think they knew they messed up.

AIBU - surely not? I don’t feel like I’m overreacting. They should not have taken it into their own hands and held a meeting with her uncle and an introduction to their uncle’s mistress without our knowledge. The other stuff I can ignore from MIL as it was a baseless attack.

She’s sent me a conciliatory text earlier. I haven’t responded as of yet.

But you never gave instructions that your child wasn't to meet BIL and his new partner. So you have no right to sound off at them.

Oh for goodness sake! Can't common sense prevail? If you know Person A is NC with person B you don't take Person A's children to visit Person B. That's not your call to make!

They don't need to write a list!

Fgs! It doesn't matter whether you agree with Op's point of view or not - it doesn't matter what she calls the OW - what matters is that the PIL knew OP was no contact and how she felt about the situation and still took Op to see their Ds and the OW. Crossed the line so YANBU Op.

Op's daughter to see.....!

What’s the actual problem here OP?
The fact that your PILs have gone over your head ( in your mind ) or some strange reason that your DD has been in the presence of the other woman?

Because other than possibly being mildly put out that this has happened I cannot get my head around such dramatics.

You are not unreasonable as your ILs know you are NC. As far as criticizing your relationship as DIL all you have to do is say "This is why we aren't close" It isn't up to them to decide who your daughter has relationships with

I find it quite funny seeing people's views on this thread that lots of people cheat therefore it's fine and no one should judge them for that

YANBU OP. Your ILs knew how you felt about BIL and the current significant other, but they chose to ignore your views and carried on with the visit. PIL could have just as easily seen BIL on another occasion. It's disrespectful and unnecessarily goading.

YABU. You’ve taken family contact (uncle) away from your dd and not even told her why. BIL as far as I understand had an affair and has moved on with somebody else but why has he actually done to YOU? Why are you judging his choices so much?

@NoSauce Its unfortunately that you feel that way but if my PIL deliberately went against something I felt strongly about for my child then that would shake my trust in them. In fact there are several of DHs extended family that I am very clear that I do not want my baby in contact with including his sister. This is mostly because they treat DSS like a black sheep but want to play happy aunts/uncles with the new baby and because they have children who I have witnessed to be violent.

That's not controlling it's called being a parent. I'm sure if OP had wanted to broach the subject of BIL with her child then she would. The whole thing seems very orchestrated by the PIL so clearly they couldn't give a shit how OP and her DH feel. If you cant trust someone then they shouldnt be looking after your child unsupervised.

YANBU. Whether your reasoning is right or wrong it is yours to make. Your PIL have no right to overrule your decisions.

YABU. You’ve taken family contact (uncle) away from your dd and not even told her why.

Not the end of the world.

BIL as far as I understand had an affair and has moved on with somebody else but why has he actually done to YOU? Why are you judging his choices so much?

Because they were friends with his wife, he treated her badly and some people can't get on board with others having affairs.

YOUR child YOUR choice

Sorry for all the grandparents out there, no you don’t get to make choices about your grandkids.

For whatever reason OP is NC with BIL (sounds likes there’s more to it than just living with the OW), it was not the grandparents choice to take dd to BIL’s house knowing OP and OP’s husband wouldn’t like it

Sorry long update

A few days have passed and I’ve calmed down about the unwelcome meeting with BIL & introduction to OW. It’s unfortunate and we are still upset but it is done and certainly it’s a boundary that won’t be crossed again.

Now I am thinking about the text from MIL which is basically inviting us to play happy families and pretend nothing was said for the greater good and for everything to just go back to how it was.

Here is a small selection of the things levelled at me on Friday as to why she has an issue with me.

1. I don’t send enough pictures to her of dd, but I put (a very few) on social media occasionally -I’m not hugely into doing that but it’s true. (My response was, have you ever asked DH for photos? Why is it my responsibility to keep you in photos & Have you told me you’d like more photos or asked me explicitly to send you photos? (No)

1. I do not call her just to chat. I told her DH does not call my mum just to chat either. DH confirmed.

1. I do not say hello to them quickly enough and don’t always kiss and hug them when they arrive. (Often I am busy or preparing a meal for them right when they arrive)

1. I do not ask them enough about their lives and what they are doing. (I do, they just don’t alter their routine much so it’s generally not a long conversation.)

1. She revealed they often come away from engagement with me complaining between themselves about how standoffish I am with them. I’m incredibly welcoming to them and have sought to include them even when DH hasn’t considered doing this.

1. I am smarter than MIL (her statement, not my feeling) and therefore she feels she can’t talk to me without coming away feeling inferior, so she’s nervous to talk to me. In no way do I actively try to belittle her, this is her own inferiority complex.

1. MIL feels I do not invite her to do 1:1 things (I reminded her about including them frequently at ALL the bbqs with friends, almost every major holiday I host and cater for them every year, the sporting events she’s interested in that I’ve taken her to on my own through work and the regular weeklong family holidays away they have enjoyed at our expense over the years and she had forgotten but still felt this wasn’t sufficient. She is upset as I ought to know without her asking she wants more 1:1 time, although she has never invited me to do anything or ever suggested she’s unhappy with the frequent level of engagement we have.

1. I treat them “like staff” - based on when dd started school they asked to pick her up from school once a week to have time and although this isn’t always convenient for us we have welcomed it. Occasionally DH suggests we go out to dinner for date night as they are there so they can have 1:1 time with dd as that’s what they have asked to be there for. I always prepare food for them etc, I didn’t know they resented us going out. (It’s awkward with me there while they try to care for her as dd naturally comes to me and they don’t end up getting the time they want.) besides it’s always DH who wants to go on date night anyway as I’m happy to be at home. The “like staff” thing is not levelled at DH.

1. She criticised my/our faith (that she doesn’t follow) and suggested we were bad representatives for not wholly forgiving BIL .

10. I took exception to being referred to nastily repeatedly as YOUR WIFE in in the argument by MIL to DH, which is when I told her that is completely minimising me as a person to describe me only in my role relation to my husband and that makes me, as an individual, personally disposable just as she’s treated SIL in favour of OW as she’s now in BIL’s “wife seat”. DH agreed.

There was more but that’s enough.

It felt like she’s just held a long list of petty, minor hurts I’ve ‘caused’ which she has stored up over the years presumably to hurl at me in a moment like this.

Despite her feelings, I have always rather liked my MIL actually and am embarrassed and upset that she seems to dislike me on this level over such petty, easily explainable things. I am somewhat introverted and not a fake over the top person, perhaps they wish I was. It’s confusing for her to dislike me so much and think I’m so awful but then also want even more engagement from me.

I can’t see how she thinks I/we can just let it go and play happy families for the sake of the wider family after having said all that. DH is a very articulate and even tempered person and thankfully he diffused the active anger in the moment. But now we are left with this. I don’t really want to fix it.

Fix it.

For your DH. For your DD. For being the bigger person.

None of this ought to be about an affair or new partner, your DH is no contact with his brother for whatever reason, therefore his parents shouldn't have taken your daughter to see the brother/uncle without discussing it first.

Yanbu. They know you are not in contact with the bil and they shouldn’t have taken your daughter there. It’s your daughter/your family, your decision to make, not Theirs .

If they want to accept the new situation, fine, their call, but you have the right also to decide what you want to do

OP YANBU. DFIL has a mistress/OW that he's shacked up with whilst still married to DMIL and the cause of the split. If he took my DC round to meet her without my permission I would be as livid as you. I don't care if that sounds judgemental. I am. If your DSIL is the innocent party as my DMIL is that's where the relationship that matters to me would be fostered. Not with the cheating pair.

You have my sympathies, OP. She sounds like a trying character and you're expected to go above and beyond for her by virtue of being a younger female.

Some of those things you can absolutely push back on (eg not her place to criticise your religion) and other things you may feel are small enough that you can change (eg ducking out of the kitchen to say hi when they arrive).

But honestly, in your shoes, I'd be making very clear to my husband that it's his role to involve and stay in touch with her, and yours to be open and friendly when you see them. I'd expect his full backing. Then any unhappiness she has with the nature or level of relationships can rightly be placed back at him.

MIL feels I do not invite her to do 1:1 things (I reminded her about including them frequently at ALL the bbqs with friends, almost every major holiday I host and cater for them every year, the sporting events she’s interested in that I’ve taken her to on my own through work and the regular weeklong family holidays away they have enjoyed at our expense over the years and she had forgotten but still felt this wasn’t sufficient

That's insane of her. It's far more engagement and involvement already, than most parents can expect. She's really lucky.

I would counter most of those complaints with "I'm sorry. I'm a quiet and somewhat introverted person. Casual chat is difficult for me, and my quietness is not at all about standoffish or thinking less of you. I try really hard to involve you in our lives, but I can't change my personality for you. I'm sorry to discover that you've misunderstood me, and that you have so many grievances. It's hugely disconcerting for me as I like you, and thought we had a good relationship. It's going to take me some time to process all this. It maybe that some of these things I can change, but in some areas I would appreciate you understanding and accepting who I am, as I do you"

I think you need to accept the invitation as otherwise you as a whole family will never move on from this incident .. if you don't go this time you will feel even more awkward this time.

For the sake of you Dd and Dh you need to sort it . However, personally I would be very hurt by the things mil said to you and would be dialling back my personal engagement with her... especially taking her to sporting events etc.

You are very different people. You say you are more introvert, she may see this as stand-offish. From the way you write you seem to me to be a bit of a cold fish. Studied and considered.

She seems to be more impulsive and outgoing. It isn't easy for the twain to meet.

She has behaved badly but from what you say you are not blameless. You make her feel inadequate.

Try to find a way to move on for the sake of DD and your DH. But small steps...

It’s irrelevant if the op is a ‘cold fish’. The specific actions the mil wants from her are way ott. Her son does none of these for his mil. The op in fact does do some of this which apparently doesn’t count at all. Honestly I’d reply you really need to talk to dh about some of these things, as for me I do invite you along to lots of things, some just me and you and have worked hard to spend quite a bit of time with you. Clearly none of that counted one bit so I have no idea what else I can do, I do know the party and event invites will stop from me, what a colossal waste of my time. I thought we were enjoying time together and all that time you thought I was actively ignoring you!

YANBU I’m nc with my sister and my father and I’d be livid if my mother brought ds to my sisters house or to her own house to see either of them. Your child, your choice.

She knows she’s in the wrong. So she’s lashing out over everything that could be perceived as a “slight”

Don’t rise to it, let her stew. And if it doesn’t suit you to go out just so they can have “alone” time with dd then just don’t go out.

I'm quite shocked at the rough time OP has had here. The BIL cheated on his wife with a woman who presumably knew he was married, has left his wife and shacked up with the OW and the OP and her DH are being given a hard time because they don't want to condone it or have contact or act as if nothing had happened? Come on people! I wouldn't have contact with my BIL and his new bit of stuff if this happened either. He should have left his wife before having an affair.