PILs

[NCwhatevs]

NC for this

DH’s brother had an affair & left DSIL for his mistress a while back, they are now divorcing. BIL is now shacked up with his mistress. We do not have good relationship with him and he is openly hostile via messages to DH who has kindly tried to keep in touch generally without being positive about his choices, as frankly they have been poor. We are not at this point at all interested in meeting with him and especially not with the OW and therefore certainly didn’t envision DD to do so either.

We have not discussed with our DD why we don’t see her uncle these days because she is young enough (7) to not talk about it specifically.

Today however, after having DD overnight during Easter break (at their request) on the way home, PIL (who have welcomed the mistress already) chose to take DD to BIL’s mistress’s home where she saw BIL for the first time in a long time and met the mistress properly for the very first time.

This was done without us being consulted or present and without context for her as she didn’t know about her uncle and a new partner.

We found out as soon as dd was home as DD spilled all the beans about meeting the OW.

She knows her auntie and uncle are living apart but not any reason why.

We had a massive argument with PILs tonight as we felt they overstepped massively by taking her there and acted completely inappropriately without consulting us as we would definitely have not done that ourselves and are incredibly shocked they chose to do this. It was not their call to make.

They were incredibly hurt by us calling them out on this & we have had a massive argument with them this evening. They have been told from both of us- this is unacceptable - DH has said that he will explain the situation with BIL and the mistress to DD tomorrow in a context she can understand but they have forced us into having to have this conversation with her and we are both so angry.

MiL was unfortunately mean about DSIL tonight who has done nothing and was in no way the cause of the split, and then tried to deflect all their actions today on supporting their other son and instead of taking any culpability in making the introduction to the mistress, told me what a terrible DIL I’ve been to her and how she’s “always wanted a closer relationship” and how hurt she is I never invite her to do things.

Anyway this is a tangent. She was deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere from herself. I think they knew they messed up.

AIBU - surely not? I don’t feel like I’m overreacting. They should not have taken it into their own hands and held a meeting with her uncle and an introduction to their uncle’s mistress without our knowledge. The other stuff I can ignore from MIL as it was a baseless attack.

She’s sent me a conciliatory text earlier. I haven’t responded as of yet.

The "marriage" is on paper only OP. None of it is your business.

Im dead set against cheating but also think yabu. Bil is dh family and his marriage and girlfriend isnt your business.
I think you should support him. Its hardly easy to decide to divorce

OP, I agree with you and your DH. YANBU. If people who acted morally wrong still had social consequences, they’d act in a less shitty manner.

On the matter of now having to tell her about infidelity, abandonment and break down of marriage at 7, when she feels secure in her own family unit, might cause her distress. Did mine when my DM forced (long story) is to tell my younger children that they didn’t have the same DF as my eldest. Hysterics were had, scared their daddy would leave them too, in and on. (My eldest didn’t want them to know as eldest wanted to feel 100% their sibling, asked to have last name changed to DH and call my DH Dad)

Re mother in law say g additional things to you, I’d actually counter, why bother if you’d tray her as she does your SIL now, as she finds DIL so easily disposable.

Wow, I’m reading this and realising this must be how DH’s SIL must have thought about us when we got together as although relationships were over the marriages existed for about a year until the divorce came through by which point I was pregnant and buying our home together.

I always assumed everyone was happy for us but there had always been some weird under current with SIL so assume this is probably it

It’s quite sad really

I think you are well within your rights to be peeved about anything anyone does regarding your child that you disagree with. YANBU.

I would be upset if I were you, what he did is awful to SIL. However if he is otherwise a decent brother/uncle I would not go NC over it. Think that is more damaging to dd. And he has made a mistake/wasnt in love he shouldn't be punished for that forever.

In my opinion you're not unreasonable to be upset that PIL took your DD to BIL when they knew it wouldn't be what you'd want.

But on the other hand you are coming across as unpleasantly judgemental and cruel to your BIL's new girlfriend.

How do you know SIL did nothing wrong? You cannot possibly tell what the dynamics of the marriage were. It's not for you to judge. People fall out of love.
I can understand your irritation with PIL but I think you will have to accept this new woman at some point. Your BIL's life has moved on.

This has to be the judgiest OP of the year.

Your BIL's marriage broke up, he was unfaithful. That happens to tens of thousands of people. The person he was unfaithful with is now his partner. That's exceedingly common too. The marriage still exists on paper because they're not divorced yet. Also very common. Unless you're extremely religious, I don't see why you're taking this as a sin that your child has to be protected from.

This is a MASSIVE over-reaction and you're going to be messing with your child's head if you continue this way. Your poor PsIL.

I don't think they've done anything so bad. They know you disapprove of bil's actions, but he is in a relationship with this other woman now. I don't think meeting her and seeing him is a big issue. You can't control how your bil acts and you have no idea what he told his new partner when they got together. It is what it is.

OP I understand you are upset about the family dynamics at present with the split of BIL but you really need to get off your high horse....your PIL have done nothing wrong...they made an informed decision to accept the OW (who too has done nothing wrong ,) to try to keep their family together,,,,they probably dislike the whole situation and are very distressed about the split too but it happens...marriages fail and people move on....your PIL are seeing the bigger picture in trying to keep their family together ....Sadly it is not for you to judge....and bear in mind the children have enough to deal with and in my opinion it is far better for children to accept situations where the adults are as open and honest as to why things are like they are than for the kids to be kept in the dark and imaging allsorts....trying to protect kids I understand sometimes tends to work against you as they too need clarity in an age appropriate way...kids arent daft about these things and neither are your PIL in trying to mend fences and putting their feelings aside in order for their family to move on....step back OP and trust that they did this with the best intentions for a positve over all outcome for everyone involved,,,,

I’m presuming that your Pil knew your thoughts on Bil and ow relationship, so if that is the case then Pil have crossed the line, and the fact that they never told you before hand of their intentions to take your dd to visit his uncle and new partner is calculated and devious of them.

It must of been very confusing for your dd, how did they explain the ow and where sil was ?

I would explain to Pil that they crossed the line big time and they know it, and when it comes to making decisions about your daughter you out rank them all, I would also say that you now feel that you can no longer trust them and it will take a long time to recover trust that was once their.

If you carry on like this you will end up going no contact with everyone including pil and that will be the biggest shame for your dd. I don’t agree with cheating at all but you need to learn to let this go and just be civil for the sake of your dd.

I feel like all that needs to happen is you guys need to back off a bit and reconcile yourselves with the fact this has actually happened, it is actually their business not yours, and life has to go on.

Don't project your negative perception of the situation onto your child, children actually adapt to such changes without giving a stuff, so if you add a load of emotional or moral weight to it you are only adding a little stress to your child's life.

It's their business, their lives, what's done is done, children don't need to be worrying about the ins and outs of adult relationships they only need to know what is, and can have a happy friendly relationship with everyone involved.

I cannot believe the number of people who think the op was out of line. The pil were massively out of line. And as for judgey, I bloody well hope my own nice brother and sister in law’s would be equally judgey if my dh treated me like bil has treated sil. How did mumsnet suddenly pivot on a dime and declare affair partners should be embraced with open arms and women who have been cheated on must be cast aside? Judge away op.

I would also say that you now feel that you can no longer trust them and it will take a long time to recover trust that was once their

Let’s hope the OP doesn’t follow your advice. Just break this down for a minute, PILs were looking after their granddaughter and during that time visited their son and his girlfriend. Now read that a few times and tell me that you’d still not trust them with your child?

Really? You’re as controlling as the OP then. The DD met the new partner of her uncle. No big deal.

YABU they visited their son with your DD. You're being massively hysterical about the whole thing. Just tell DD uncle has a new relationship now no big deal, no moral panic.

I think there's a limit to how much you can force reality to bend to your sensibilities.

For all that I would share OP's sensibilities (which I do) here is no way in hell I would not visit my DC in this situation, nor would I countenance the idea that it was a great moral ill to do so, with or without grandchildren around.

YANBU

Your BIL sounds spoilt

If you carry on like this you will end up going no contact with everyone including pil and that will be the biggest shame for your dd. I don’t agree with cheating at all but you need to learn to let this go and just be civil for the sake of your dd.
That.

Whatever you feel about what your BIL did (and "shacking up with his mistress" rather than 'living with his new partner' makes that pretty plain) you need to look at the larger picture. Your DD needs a warm relationship with her grandparents and her extended family, and that's way more important than anything else in this scenario.

@adorethebeach I did actually make that disposable point to her. That’s the most hurtful part to me about her attitude.

It seems really split here.

I remain surprised so many people are cool with PILs actions undermining our very known wishes when caring for DD, and those that think we are unacceptably judgy for not welcoming the OW woman with open arms and congratulating them for finding happiness together.

I agree with @timeisnotaline who says it well. When did we on MN determine whomever is in the wife seat for however long deserves all the respect in the world to the detriment of the one who was pushed out? It makes innocent women out to be disposable and that’s not ok in my book.

That aside however, if you take away the situational emotion people are attaching to our negative feelings about the affair/mistress scenario, I’m surprised at those who would be happy for grandparents (or anyone entrusted with care) to unilaterally decide to act against the clear and obvious wishes of the parents in any given situation. (Cutting hair, feeding sweets, unruly dogs etc, substitute whatever other scenario I’ve seen discussed here situationally) It shows really poor judgment IMO in the same way and was just not their place to have done this.

Genuinely astonished that people would actually feel like this doesn’t also overstep in real life simply because of the BIL context.

Mumsmet is weird sometimes, I think it’s how your opening post that can decide your “fate” 🤷‍♀️

I don’t think you are wrong, but I feel strongly about cheating.

These are strangers some of whom seem to have primarily taken offence to your name for the OW
In your shoes I would not be happy either- people don’t go NC over nothing they knew what they were doing I’m also amazed you are willing to let the things she said to you slide. The disposablity aspect would bother me too

I can't believe the amount of people on this thread that think YABU, it must be the way you have worded it to show your hatred/judgement of the situation. The most important point is that PIL did something behind your back that they knew you would not agree with and probably not find out about. That is wrong. No other words for it. They have no right going against your wishes with your DD. It would be different if the BIL and OW had dropped by and they had made them welcome but this was a deliberate act and I would be thinking twice about them having DD unless they realise this and apologise.

we are unacceptably judgy for not welcoming the OW woman with open arms and congratulating them for finding happiness together.

You do realise there's a happy medium between 'welcoming with open arms and congratulating', and going NC and inflicting the same on your daughter, yes?
The PIL are in a horrible position, imo.

Also it's far from clear that your PI's knew that you were actively NC. Your OP doesn't say so.

We are not at this point at all interested in meeting with him and especially not with the OW and therefore certainly didn’t envision DD to do so either.
You 'didn't envision' her meeting OW sounds very woolly, and nothing like 'we made it very clear to PIL that DD is not to meet OW'