PILs

[NCwhatevs]

NC for this

DH’s brother had an affair & left DSIL for his mistress a while back, they are now divorcing. BIL is now shacked up with his mistress. We do not have good relationship with him and he is openly hostile via messages to DH who has kindly tried to keep in touch generally without being positive about his choices, as frankly they have been poor. We are not at this point at all interested in meeting with him and especially not with the OW and therefore certainly didn’t envision DD to do so either.

We have not discussed with our DD why we don’t see her uncle these days because she is young enough (7) to not talk about it specifically.

Today however, after having DD overnight during Easter break (at their request) on the way home, PIL (who have welcomed the mistress already) chose to take DD to BIL’s mistress’s home where she saw BIL for the first time in a long time and met the mistress properly for the very first time.

This was done without us being consulted or present and without context for her as she didn’t know about her uncle and a new partner.

We found out as soon as dd was home as DD spilled all the beans about meeting the OW.

She knows her auntie and uncle are living apart but not any reason why.

We had a massive argument with PILs tonight as we felt they overstepped massively by taking her there and acted completely inappropriately without consulting us as we would definitely have not done that ourselves and are incredibly shocked they chose to do this. It was not their call to make.

They were incredibly hurt by us calling them out on this & we have had a massive argument with them this evening. They have been told from both of us- this is unacceptable - DH has said that he will explain the situation with BIL and the mistress to DD tomorrow in a context she can understand but they have forced us into having to have this conversation with her and we are both so angry.

MiL was unfortunately mean about DSIL tonight who has done nothing and was in no way the cause of the split, and then tried to deflect all their actions today on supporting their other son and instead of taking any culpability in making the introduction to the mistress, told me what a terrible DIL I’ve been to her and how she’s “always wanted a closer relationship” and how hurt she is I never invite her to do things.

Anyway this is a tangent. She was deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere from herself. I think they knew they messed up.

AIBU - surely not? I don’t feel like I’m overreacting. They should not have taken it into their own hands and held a meeting with her uncle and an introduction to their uncle’s mistress without our knowledge. The other stuff I can ignore from MIL as it was a baseless attack.

She’s sent me a conciliatory text earlier. I haven’t responded as of yet.

I am torn on this because I think that because your PIL knew you are NC, they should have been more cautious with DDs contact with BIL. They should have wondered if it was provocative and concluded that it wasn’t worth the hassle.

But OTOH, I think YABU, OP. You cannot expect the PIL accept that their whole family network should automatically be terminated by BIL’s affair. It is hard, but you will all need to make an effort to put aside anger so that over time you can have a healthy extended family network.

You don’t need to be best mates with the new happy couple - why would you? - but you maybe need to accept that the new reality is not something you and DH can control. Try to make the best of it - including not holding PIL to an unreasonable situation where they can’t have family members in the same room.

I don’t want anyone to cast him aside. FWIW We are angry with his choices but In fact we have done our fair share of looking after him quite literally in years gone by. We do care for him but he makes himself a hard to love personality.

That said he’s behaved horribly to his wife, a lot of emotional abuse etc. He’s rejected my DH’s olive branches repeatedly and quite nastily. DH readily says and has for years if he wasn’t his brother he wouldn’t choose to be friends with him. DH is a lovely guy with many friends. BIL is hard work.

OW presumably has only seen the charming side as of yet. He can be very very charming. And he’s handsome too. I feel sorry for her. She has it to come sadly.

We are just so angry that PIL know how we feel presently and because they do they should have had sense not to have taken her there. For right now at least. We should have been consulted but they thought it was no big deal.

They should have thought twice. But you are seriously feeding the drama here.

The stuff about ‘explaining’ to DD is not very relevant - she’s 7yo. This is about you controlling things and imposing your view of BILs conduct on your PIL. Unless DD had a bad/unpleasant/unsafe time then maybe answer MILs text with another conciliatory one.

You don’t need to know him or his girlfriend intimately. Just enough to spend bit of time with them without judgement. You may actually like her! It’s currently making life hard for your hubbys parents, they are both their children. Could you arrange a meal together with MIL hosting where you could all meet properly?

Well, they've shot themselves in the foot haven't they? Whatever the rights & wrongs of it all they did not respect your views as parents about whom your child should be in contact with, assuming they knew you were low or NC yourselves with BIL they could have anticipated you would not want DD to see him.
I guess they won't be on the overnight babysitting rota for a while or having any other unsupervised contact with DD?

I can see why your PIL would want to maintain a relationship with BIL, whether or not they approve of how he has behaved (imagine in 20 or 30 years time your DD in this situation). They may privately be quite angry about his adultery but he is their son. If they knew you and DH were not in touch with BIL they should probably not have taken DD to see him but maybe thought they could engineer a reconciliation? Maintaining a distance is fine if that is what you want but don't over think what you need to explain to DD, keep it simple and see if she asks for more info.
Patch things up with PIL. Life is short and they obviously have a good relationship with DD. They may also be missing DSIL and trying to adjust to OW. Are you still in touch with DSIL - she is the one who has been wronged not you?
Also, I have a BIL who has made wrong choices all his life, usually to his own detriment (karma is a bitch).

You sound very controlling OP and you are also overreacting and over invested in the situation. There must be more to it. Having read your last post, I wonder if you hover had designs on your brother in law, whom you describe as so handsome and charming, and his rejection of you is making you so angry, or you are jealous of his new love.

However, if there isn't more to it, why are you trying to wreck your husband's family?

@JennyWoodentop they aren’t child abusers. This is their child (adult) who god forbid fell out of love and met someone else. So grandparents visit whilst they are babysitting. This whole thread seems more about the immortals of him having moved on from his wife to someone new. It seems like op is so much on ex’s side new girlfriend doesn’t stand a chance

I cannot believe some of the comments on here tonight. OP YANBU. I would have been furious. Your PILs knew how you felt and now they have put you in an awkward position. There was a post on here last week about a MIL that cut a child's hair whilst babysitting and she out of order and a border line abuser yet you want to show support to woman who has been cheated on and humiliated and you are the bad guy!

'Is it okay to teach your DD to stay with someone you dont love'. What kind of a rubbish comment is that? Is not okay to cheat on your wife, gaslight her and hurt her further then call your brother out when he has offers an olive branch. If he was unhappy, he could have separated - not cheat and then blame her.

His relationship with his parents is between them but given your lack of relationship with him and trying to support your SIL they had no right to take your DD there. I would not be allowing DD to go over there unsupervised for a long time. Your MIL has also shown her true colours, dumping SIL so quickly and revealing her true feelings about you. I would lay low for a while, let your DH deal with it.

@KC225 so you upon reading a few posts suddenly know all the facts and everyone’s life history? “'Is it okay to teach your DD to stay with someone you dont love'. What kind of a rubbish comment is that? Is not okay to cheat on your wife, gaslight her and hurt her further then call your brother out when he has offers an olive branch. If he was unhappy, he could have separated - not cheat and then blame her.”

Do you know without doubt she didn’t cheat first @KC225 do you know she didn’t make the relationship uncomfortable? Of course not because non of us where there. The only thing we know is it ended. Is this were a reverse and a woman had moved on in a new relationship would you complain so much?

alicewond I was quoting another poster who made that ridiculous comment. I know what you know by what the OP stated.

@KC225 I made the statement you quoted as being a rubbish comment and quoted back to you 😂

@Rock4please Are you always so dramatic?

The rights and wrongs of the marriage break up are neither here nor there. The fact is PIL knew the feelings of OP and their son (doesn't matter whether MNs agree with their feelings or not) but still went against their wishes and took their granddaughter to visit uncle and OW. Out of order on their part.

@Alleycat1 where in ops post does it say no contact with BIL was specified?

Alicewond

"@JennyWoodentop they aren’t child abusers."

I didn't say they were, I said whatever the rights & wrongs of it all, the PIL did not respect the views of the parents - this could apply to anything - ear piercing, feeding meat to a vegetarian child, disrespecting religious views.... whatever the issue was, in this case it's the behaviour of a family member.
If you can't trust someone to respect your parenting decisions & know they have gone behind your back in the past, then you probably won't leave your child unsupervised in their care again until trust has been rebuilt. I don't think I actually gave my opinion on the specific scenario, I was responding to what OP seems to perceive as a breech of trust.

@JennyWoodentop let’s agree to move on from this debate, I doubt it’ll be a happy ending for anyone, I’m off though as I’ve said all I can, best wishes :)

Alicewond Op said "PIL knows we are nc with BIL" and "It was not their call to make" . So PIL didn't need it written in stone as it's pretty obvious.

What a drama llama you are OP.

You are perfectly entitled to wear your judgy pants and not speak to the BIL. No issue there. But why, oh why would you bring your child into it? Why try and project YOUR issues on to her? That's poor form right there.
Don't bother with the "oh, she knows nothing, she wasn't around" Children see and hear way more than we give them credit for.
Does your child not know that relationships break down. People meet new friends/partners/spouses? Why is the whole 'explanation' thing even be a 'thing'? If she has a problem with it all it's because you've given her one.
I cannot imagine placing restrictions on who my parents visit when they look after my children, and I did have an estrangement from a sibling when they did something that deeply hurt me. Nothing to do with my children though so never made to be.

Oh, and you can still be a 'girlfriend' if your partner is married. Just an FYI

I would have been pissed of as well OP, the PILs knew what they were doing and why not ask you first so you had a choice. They didn't need to take your DD round there, they could have seen him at any other time. Your MIL is deflecting and trying to make you feel guilty, I would leave it to your DH to respond to her and also defend you. I'd be reluctant to let them look after my child as well, if you can't trust them don't let them have her alone.

My BIL cheated on his wife several times and my MIL defended him it was always my SIL fault he strayed my DH called his DB out for his actions and he lost a lot of respect for him.

For all the people querying the need for explanations- this isn't a younger sibling who has got a new girlfriend. The SIL has presumably been known by the DD as auntie, possibly for her whole life. When I was that age I don't think I really understood the difference between 'auntie sarah who is daddy's sister and auntie Jane who is just married in.'

The idea that family members can suddenly stop being family members does need some explaining to a seven year old, and first introducing that concept by effectively introducing her to auntie jane's replacement is a bit off.

I am shocked at all the PPs saying that it's no big deal for PILs to deliberately expose OP's minor child to BIL/BIL's GF, knowing that the parents would not consent.

In what universe is it okay to undermine parental authority/wishes and take a minor child to see someone who is uninterested in maintaining a respectful relationship with the parents?!

@babyworry2018 you used presumably and possibly there, as in you are making assumptions. Do you have any facts!

Wow you there is so real shit in these posts isn't there. OP YANBU and your PIL have either shown a glaring lack of thought or have arranged a meeting for when DD would be there. Did they ask to have her that specific night? You are all entitled to your feelings on the matter but most importantly PIL have breached the boundary by which you as DDs parents have made this decision. PIL may disagree and you haven't indicated anywhere that you would disapprove of them seeing their son with OW in general but taking DD with them was a big overstep. Did they actually speak to DD beforehand and explain that was now with OW or just leave her a bit bewildered? I would be furious in your shows and would question if I could trust them to babysit until DD is a bit older