How much is your class disrupted by bad behaviour?

[Catinthetwat]

I was just wondering how much of a problem behaviour is in the classroom. I keep hearing that it's getting out of hand.

Interested to hear from teachers and TA's...

It's not a major issue at my kids' school (secondary). Most of the children are motivated and there to learn. Disruptive children are removed from the classroom and dealt with elsewhere so the rest of the kids can get on with what they're supposed to be doing.

What do you mean by teachers taking their politics to work?

Dd says that she has told the boys to shut up and they've said they don't need gcses as they are going to be famous. Idiotic but boys mature more slowly i guess

A minority of the boys presumably? Don't tar them all with the same brush. If that was all that teacher did every lesson then she wouldn't last 5 minutes as a teacher if she'd even qualified, observations of trainee teachers are very, very rigorous if they trained at a good university.

No behaviour issues there because of the intake and supportive parents who did support their children.

So nothing to do with teachers having tattoos or their choice of footwear

Parents who wang on about how some kids are more suited to hairdressing than maths are invariably parents who expect their kids to be in the maths stream and would kick up a fuss if they were headed down the hairdresser route.

Germany’s school system (which always comes up) has been condemned by the United Nations for perpetuating social inequity.

Echt actually telling the children that independent education is wrong, capitalism is wrong, independent wealth is wrong, zero emphasis on marriage - not even stable relationships and marriage and telljng dc their voting intentions and to vote otherwise was selfish. Locally there was a head who handed out red balloons on election day.

Few candidates apply for slt at our place. 3 out of 6 are awful. The other 3 are fab but the head of behaviour is a bully, has favourites and regularly, clearly manipulates rules that should be maintained across the whole school to his own ends. Eg. school rule is no phones out at all. You walk into his office and both kids in there with him are on insta.

It flows from slt. Thing is, they can’t please all the people all the time but seem to try to. It seems the weak senior staff at ours are afraid of parents instead of standing their ground with them over sanctions etc.

The context would be needed here.

Outside a faith school, can't see why marriage should be emphasised. Again, context of all this needed.

As for voting intentions, do you mean a teacher did this or most/all/some?

You start off referring to your child's school then talk about a local HT's actions. Confusing.

I'm in primary and I've noticed that the children have much less respect for adults now than in the past. Every year it seems to be harder to get the Reception children to behave appropriately. I think this is partly because the curriculum now is so focussed on academic learning from an early age so there is less time for the children to develop their social skills.

Also there is a huge lack of respect from parents. I have been shouted at on the playground in front of my whole class by parents who were not happy with the fact that their child had been disciplined in school.

brizzlemint she has some really nice boy friends , they are certainly not all like it. The point is it only takes four disruptive pupils to ruin a class. Her teacher is new, a computer science teacher and doesn't teach them, just gives out worksheets. She will write things on the board if asked apparently. Anyway, dd hates it, wants to crack on so we are moving her and she can't wait.

So what's the answer? Could it be to bring back schools for those with specialist needs?

Just wanted to point out there are specialists schools.

Also lots of mention of children with SEN being disruptive. Children without SEN can be disruptive. And SEN is a very broad term, covering many areas of need.

"Just wanted to point out there are specialists schools."

Not enough places in some areas. If a child has been waiting for 6 months for a place and is forced out of education because of this, there aren't enough. Of course there is not enough funding for children with asd etc in mainstream either.

sockwomble to attend a specialist school, a child must have an EHCP. If a school is named on an EHCP being ‘full’ is not a reason not to admit a child.

There are 3 grounds which a child can be refused entry and being full isn’t one.

An EHCP bring funding regardless of mainstream setting.

My Dh is a primary teacher. He teaches a class which have the ability to make other teachers cry. They're very demanding, lots of behaviours issues and he only has a couple of hours TA support despite about 6 of them having diagnosed Sen like autism, adhd etc. The parents can be very difficult to deal with and rarely back him up with
consequences. What seems to work well is fairly old fashioned 'strictness' from a male. They respond well to the new male headteacher too. He has a Monday off work, and on Tuesday they are awful, he usually ends up shouting at them and telling them off and then after that they have a nicer week. The airy fairy positive stuff, talking to the teachers about their feelings, lego therapy and getting to take the school dog for a walk did not improve behaviour, even though the parents and previous head loved it.

Re. Teachers taking politics to work - the amount of assemblies that they had about brexit and the need to stay together, how great the EU is, inviting immigrants to chat to the class, changing to unisex toilets etc is astounding. Again, not so pronounced since the old head left but that is not what school is for. I would be very cross if my future child came home from primary school to tell me how I should vote because Mrs so-and-so says so.

Claw01 I know all that but that but that doesn't help if the LA aren't cooperating and you are forced to wait months for a tribunal to force them to do it or name the independent special school that does have places.

Patent here

Dd1 reports fair bit of disruption. her and her friends honestly believe that 2 of the teachers they had left because their class is so badly behaved.

Whether it's a coincidence or not but she has a boy heavy class and apparently theres not a single boy who doesn't muck about to some degree .

Dd and her friends have of course been stuck sat between them. I did have to get her removed from beside one boy as he was physically pushing and shoving her around. Throwing her stuff about shouting through her to his friends, manspreading across the desk so she couldn't even put her pencil case on the table. And generally kustbstopping her from being able to do her work .

I dont know wht the answer is. Maybe if they stopped stereotyping the kids so stupidity wasnt just expected from boys and girls werent expected to be the crowd control they wuldnt end up yr seven 5 foot 8 and twice the size of the teacher and ferel.

Maybe if teachers didnt have to be so afraid of being accused of being unfair or too harsh by idiot parents they could do more.

Sometimes i wish we could go back to the days where teachers could tell a child they were being a dick head and if they are going to be selfish and disrupt the class they can piss off and go clear out the pond instead.

Kids know theres Jack shit teachers can do really, and they dont care about the punishments they are given.

The fear of disappointing your teachers and the reaction.of your parents whi you knew would kill you if you were ever caught being so stupid has gone.

Just wanted to point out there are specialists schools

There are, but there's not enough. Waiting list locally, once a specialist school had been allocated, was over a year because they had no spaces. Prior to that, we had worked through every permutation of support in mainstream to show that the school could not support that child, even with outreach services. That all takes time because you have to have paperwork to show the LA, and attendance was also an issue as there was a non-engaged parent.

sockwomble admittedly it’s not easy and mostly falls to parents to fight.

If a child is out of school, there are routes you can take. LA must supply an education. Judicial Review to ensure they do etc.

Bit of a tangent in relation to the thread, as my point was not all children with SEN are disruptive and I was pointing out ‘bringing back’ special schools was not necessary, as they already exist!

Getting a placement is not easy. However, my point was specialist schools are not just a place for ‘disruptive’ children

I also agree with the PP.

When did we stop valuing people who didnt get a c in maths.

When did we start looking at someone who works in a kitchen, not as someone who every day manages to feed and clear up after dozens of people. Someone who can create a multitude of dishes while your husbands screw up beans on toast . But as someone to look at and say to yourself "you dont want to end up like that"

Trades people and cleaners and shop assistants etc they are just as important to the running of places. Hell even the country. Thetes ni harm in abating to aim.higher BUT if someone is never going to get to grips with algebra but clearly has a flare for electronics or woodwork it's such a shame we aret able to five them the chance to explore that. Instead they have to sit in a class they cant access.

I think the answer comes back to funding. The reason why working in a PRU or SEN school is more pleasant and rewarding, for the pupils and the staff, is partly down to the smaller class sizes. The whole atmosphere changes once you reduce a class from 30 to 15. You can manage low level disruption more easily and you can develop better relationships with the pupils, which is what good teaching is all about.

SEN /PRU schools also tend to be more nurturing and try to get to the root of the behaviour rather than mindlessly punishing. This is not possible in mainstream as we don't have the staff/ resources/ funding. So the cheapest go-to solution is to chuck the same kids into isolation repeatedly and then their behaviour becomes entrenched. On the other hand, if they stay in the classroom, the whole lesson is disrupted and other kids that want to learn are being disturbed. So there really is no simple solution. If I had a magic wand though I would:

• Make all class sizes smaller

-Change "isolation" rooms into something more nurturing (often the pupils there have some kind of SEMH issue going on which is why they are there)

• make lessons more accessible to all pupils - this would involve changing the curriculum obviously

None of this will be happening any time soon though so in the meantime we just have to do our best with a bad situation.

shawshanks waiting lists for a school named in an EHCP due to being ‘full’ is unlawful.

I appreciate this is a line spun to parents by the LA and parents have to fight.

I have a son with an EHCP and in specialist school. I know it’s not easy.

And yes, stop making GCSEs / academic work the be all and end all.

boneybackjefferson you win the award for complete common sense. If only there were more people like you on this site maybe we wouldn’t have to read so much shit. I look after children and some of them have appalling behaviour and the parents encourage them all the way. If they can’t show respect as children what will they be like as adults. This site will be a total bear pit by then!

I would be very cross if my future child came home from primary school to tell me how I should vote because Mrs so-and-so says so.

It’s not allowed, so your complaint would be upheld.

“5.33 All staff have a responsibility to ensure that they act appropriately in terms of their behaviour, the views they express (in particular political views) and the use of school resources at all times, and should not use school resources for party political purposes.”

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/750826/Staff_Advice_Handbook_October-2018-edit.pdf

SEN /PRU schools also tend to be more nurturing and try to get to the root of the behaviour rather than mindlessly punishing. This is not possible in mainstream as we don't have the staff/ resources/ funding. So the cheapest go-to solution is to chuck the same kids into isolation repeatedly and then their behaviour becomes entrenched. On the other hand, if they stay in the classroom, the whole lesson is disrupted and other kids that want to learn are being disturbed. So there really is no simple solution

Apply for an EHCP? So school do have the funding and staff?

I’m not liking the way the thread is mainly about pupils with SEN being the disruptive ones!