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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How much is your class disrupted by bad behaviour?

264 replies

Catinthetwat · 18/04/2019 15:20

I was just wondering how much of a problem behaviour is in the classroom. I keep hearing that it's getting out of hand.

Interested to hear from teachers and TA's...

OP posts:
Fazackerley · 20/04/2019 09:33

Expecting a child to think with an adult brain that oh yes I should just sit in silence because Rebeca might drop a grade isn’t even on a child radar.

So how do other children manage it? You didn't sound bored (I was very intelligent in a bog standard comp so i read books or day dreamed) you sound desperate for attention.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/04/2019 09:47

Claw01

Which are we talking about?

I was thinking

Consistent, disruptive behaviour.

Which, yes may nudge in to SEND but isn't about SEND in its entirety

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 20/04/2019 09:59

SEN & SEMH are totally different. SEN relates to their educational needs and SEMH is relating to their social, emotional and mental health needs.

SEMH issues are now officially classed as a form of SEN. That is a fact. If you're working with children with mental health issues you should know this.

Claw01 · 20/04/2019 10:30

My point was that most of the children who visit my room do not have SEN. Most have other complex issues and find it difficult to manage certain emotions which has a knock on effect on their learning.

Their have SEN then!

Boneyback the difficulty is consistent, behavioural difficulties are SEN, if it is severe enough to impact on a child’s learning and others.

These threads predictably go, we are talking about the little shits in a class, not SEN! when in fact we are talking about SEN!

Spikeyball · 20/04/2019 10:50

I think someone mentioned a chair throwing and punching year two. That describes a family members child with severe asd who simply couldn't cope in mainstream. The child is now in asd special school and those behaviours don't happen because the environment is right and the staff have the necessary skills so the child doesn't feel severe anxiety most of the time.

OhTheRoses · 20/04/2019 10:58

Simple fact. When I was at school in the 60s and 70s if any child had thrown a chair, seriously assaulted another or told a teacher to fuck off or been caught stealing they would have been expelled. They lost their right to stay at the school. I have no recollection of any such incidents. A child at ds's independent was grossly insubordinate to a teacher. Result: expulsion.

Spikeyball · 20/04/2019 11:02

Children with severe sn were treated appallingly in the past so I don't hold up the past as an ideal to aspire to.

Spikeyball · 20/04/2019 11:04

My child probably wouldn't even have had an education and I would have pushed towards having him 'put away'.

OhTheRoses · 20/04/2019 11:11

I fully support excellent specialist provision for dc with sn and far more provision for those in mainstream with neuro developmental disabilities. I absolutely do not support continuous disruption that affects the achievement and enjoyment of the majority.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/04/2019 11:25

Claw01

the difficulty is consistent, behavioural difficulties are SEN, if it is severe enough to impact on a child’s learning and others.

These threads predictably go, we are talking about the little shits in a class, not SEN! when in fact we are talking about SEN!

But that is blatantly untrue, not every child that misbehaves has a SEN. I'm not saying that non have a SEN. Yes, some may have or do have a SEN. But there are children out there that don't behave for certain teachers or in certain lessons, or have been told by parents that they are untouchable by the school, hell some are told that because they have a SEN that they don not need to do the work or follow instructions.

But lets no propagate the fallacy that all children that misbehave and disrupt have a SEN because its also disrespectful to those children with a SEN that try so very hard in lessons.

Claw01 · 20/04/2019 11:36

But there are children out there that don't behave for certain teachers or in certain lessons

I totally agree, which is why I asked are you talking about mucking around in class some of the time or consistent, high level disruptive behaviour.

You stated we are talking about the latter! So we are talking misbehaving some of the time?

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/04/2019 11:46

Claw01

I stated Consistent, disruptive behaviour. that could be low, medium or high.

But my point is that any of these levels could be by a NT pupil.
And for many different reasons and I object strongly to posters that say misbehaving/disruptive pupils must have a SEN because it is not true.

DeeCeeCherry · 20/04/2019 12:02

Exactly. Not all disruptive children have SEN. & Not all children with SEN are disruptive either.

Narratives like that make me unsurprised at the teachers shortage, there's an excuse for everything. Some children are just badly behaved (I'm not speaking of those with traumatic home lives..I wish more services were available to them). It's the class clowns, cheeky, have to be talking all the time. The ones that know their parents will be at the school immediately should teacher dare to tell them off.

I see it all the time and how weary teachers are at having to put up with it. I'm glad to be able to do my workshop and then leave.

Spikeyball · 20/04/2019 12:08

Most people don't support excellent provision for children with sen because they don't want to pay more in taxes to fund it.
They also complain about children having a 1:1 or about anything 'good' that a child with sen gets that their own child is not getting.

Fazackerley · 20/04/2019 12:09

There are plenty of kids at dds school with SEN. Lots of them are not disruptive at all. I am talking about the kids who just fucking love the sound of their own voice, love the drama and attention that they get, think they are hilarious and have no concept of having to work hard. Almost certainly have parents who think they are gods gift.

They monopolise and aggravate the teacher, they are irrotated by the kids who try and work, they think they are the coolest people on the planet for that 25 mins in maths when the teacher has to focus on them and only the. THAT IS NOT low level! I'm lucky enough to be able to move my child but plenty can't.

Claw01 · 20/04/2019 12:09

No one has said that disruptive/misbehaving pupils must have SEN.

I’m saying Behavioural difficulties which are consistent and far from the ‘norm’, which impact on a child’s learning and others IS SEN.

SarahTancredi · 20/04/2019 12:11

I’m saying Behavioural difficulties which are consistent and far from the ‘norm’, which impact on a child’s learning and others IS SEN

But isnt the problem the fact that all this disruptive behaviour is shrugged off and considered normal these days, the issue.

Claw01 · 20/04/2019 12:23

Maybe, particularly if they are just considered ‘naughty’ and obviously teachers are not trained to identity SEN.

I would hope if a child’s behaviour is severe, it would be investigated, rather than shrugged off.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/04/2019 12:24

Claw01
No one has said that disruptive/misbehaving pupils must have SEN.

and yet some posters are saying exactly this.

I’m saying Behavioural difficulties which are consistent and far from the ‘norm’, which impact on a child’s learning and others IS SEN.

But when you say "behavioural difficulties" you are relating them directly to SEND, and you are not wrong, but I am saying that some disruptive children make a conscious decision to misbehave, they have no SEND they just want to misbehave.

SarahTancredi · 20/04/2019 12:28

The bar is inconsistent with that though isnt it.

I would expect constant yelling out and all this "low level disruption: to be considered quite severe.

But it seems it has to get to assaults and chair throwing to even be noticed

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/04/2019 12:31

SarahTancredi

Part of the problem is the amount of complaints from parents for the low level stuff. As its seen as just not that bad or important till it either escalates up to violence or exam time.

SarahTancredi · 20/04/2019 12:31

When you have 17 out of 29/30 kids who at some point fuck about then you cant honestly think they all have SN? What's the statistical likelihood of that?

SarahTancredi · 20/04/2019 12:38

I definitely think the parents need to be held more accountable.

This rule you cant offend parents takes the piss really.

I expect my kid to sit down shut up and get on with her work. And I'd back the teacher in dealing with her if she didnt.

But then my dd has had to put up with her fair share of shit from kids who wont behave. And they know what they are doing because they dont do it with every teacher. So they can behave when they need to

Claw01 · 20/04/2019 12:53

When you have 17 out of 29/30 kids who at some point fuck about then you cant honestly think they all have SN? What's the statistical likelihood of that?

The key being ‘at some point fuck about’. Yes the majority of kids, at some point fuck about.

This is not consistent, severe, disruptive behaviour!

Collectively all 17 kids fucking about at the same time could be high level disruption. Which obviously wouldn’t be SEN!

boney yes we have established that some kids misbehave. I would hope if a child’s behaviour was severe enough, it would be investigated!

These threads always end up with ‘the child’s behaviour is so severe, but he/she doesn’t have SEN’ YES they do, if their behaviour is so severe! Severe behaviour difficulties is SEN and is listed and recognised as such!

SarahTancredi · 20/04/2019 12:56

Is there really SN though that miravulaiysly doesn't flare up in assembly when the head is there but somehow affects only boys or most lessons and 40 minutes into the lesson before lunch?