How much is your class disrupted by bad behaviour?

[Catinthetwat]

I was just wondering how much of a problem behaviour is in the classroom. I keep hearing that it's getting out of hand.

Interested to hear from teachers and TA's...

So that should say lack of setting in the state (not the independent!)

Primary here. Depends what the disruption is caused by.

I'd say the most frustrating instances are the ones where the parents either refuse to engage or constantly make excuses for their child's poor behaviour (when SEN is not the issue of course). Meaning that the child does whatever they like knowing that it matters not a jot what the school behaviour policy is....mum or dad will come in and kick off so they can get away with it and keep doing it time and time again.

Frankly, without parents and staff all onboard, it's a hiding to nothing and will never be resolved. The sense of entitlement and that some children 'can do no wrong' despite evidence to the contrary never ceases to amaze me!

However, if the 'disruption' is because a child with SEN isn't being supported, then that absolutely should be a priority. The key here is training and support. Training so that any triggers or access to learning for that child are identified early on for example, or what that child needs to help them learn can be established and any additional support put in place whether that's from the SENCO, SLT or TA or 1-2-1. All of this will keep disruption to a minimum. This is where inclusion can and does work in a mainstream classroom.

Trouble is, SEN support is the first thing to be cut in many schools meaning that come September, our most vulnerable children will not have the support they need.

The decimation of school budgets in our school and probably across the country will make 'disruption' get a lot worse I fear...

Exactly you believe in isolation because you have no experience of it!!

I actively chose a secondary school where the head has removed isolation rooms if needed the child will work at a table outside the heads office. They work on a positive behaviour strategy as much as possible, the Facebook page is full of pupils achievements and extra curricular trips. They seem to want to actively engage with parents and the local community.

Surprise, surprise the behaviour has improved dramatically, the school is quiet and calm.

I talked about isolation with a friend of mine who’s in Europe and she was completely horrified!!

Also look at this article below maybe we need a complete reorganisation of our school system. Treating certain professions with kids gloves and making them into saints is not good for reflective critical practice.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/isolation-booths-school-pupils-classroom-behaviour-special-educational-needs-bbc-a8630391.html

loveyoutothemoon

I also believe a major reason this happens is because some teachers don't have the ability to keep a class focused, interested.

Its also rubbish. some children would misbehave if you put the most interesting interactive lesson ever written in front of them.

Some children disrupt others because that is what they want to do.
Some children disrupt because they don't like the teacher/lesson.
Some children disrupt because the parents have brought them up to believe that they are the center of the universe and won't allow the school to follow up with sanctions.
Some children disrupt because they are bullying and harassing the teacher.
Oh and sometimes the disruption is down to the child not being bothered about the lesson/subject that they have chosen.

and yes some times it is down to the teacher, or the lesson but not every lesson can be fun and games, sometimes the basics are boring but you can't progress unless you know the basics.

I believe it is a major problem. Across the board from primary right through. Stories from friends who are teachers is shocking and the unbelievable stress these people are under to manage bad behaviour with no back up from parents is un real.
I have worked with school age children for years and gave up last year. Behaviour was a key factor and lack of parental supervision and implementing acceptable behaviour outside the setting was becoming impossible.
I have children spanning in age from 3-23. I have noticed a drastic change in what is believed to be acceptable behaviour in the classroom. My eldest is shocked by his younger siblings stories and he went to a rough comp.
The stories my children come home with have me aghast. I had to make a call to my daughters secondary school anonymously as she was so sick of girls being cruel and mean to a teacher every lesson and shouting at her abusive cruel comments till the poor woman would cry, she said we get no work done I’m worried for my GCSE. We didn’t want anybody to find out it was us as she was worried the kids involved would find out who told on them. It’s so sad that any child should feel such pressure and fear from her peers. What do you gain from such behaviour? Who has taught these girls to be so cruel?
Ten years ago you would never of heard of a child throwing a chair in year two at a teacher or punching the teacher but my forth child has witnessed these behaviours.
Special needs is not the issue these kids have not just magically appeared. We can’t blame special needs kids for disruption. I have a child with special needs he would not dream of being so aggressive and nor would any of his friends with special needs. It runs deeper than this, in my opinion it’s the parental approach. They don’t say no your behaviour is not acceptable and boundaries are never put in place. By the time they start school they are out of control.
Parents do not support teachers like they used to. It’s always their kid is perfect, my child doesn’t lie. Personal favourite, my child doesn’t like you saying no we always give a positive response to his requests. (Have actually heard that from a parent).
Sometimes no is needed to keep a child safe and others safe. Let’s face it as these children get older, are they going to go to job interviews with their child and say don’t you dare say no to my child.
It’s insane the way some children behave and discipline is the key to regaining respect of teachers and a calm learning environment.
I take my hat off to any one who works within education they deserve medals. It is not for me anymore.

I actively chose a secondary school where the head has removed isolation rooms if needed the child will work at a table outside the heads office
Working on a table outside the head's office is harsher than going to isolation as they'd have the embarrassment of people walking past. In isolation they'd have privacy from people walking past and gawping at them and would have a teacher and other kids in the room with them.

I'm an ex-secondary school teacher. In my experience, most bad behaviour is directly linked to mixed ability classes where the spectrum of ability means viable differentiation is almost impossible.

The amount of time I wasted with year 9s, I may as well have cut the classes in half and taught each group alternatively in the lesson slot: i.e. I could have covered more material to a greater depth in half the time with each group because the parameters wouldn't have been so wide.

But, obviously, this sort of approach borders on heresy, regardless of the fact it would have meant I could deliver a more appropriate education to each child.

Can any teachers on here tell me why I should have respected a head who introduced a differentiated behaviour code where the most badly behaved were given more licence than the well behaved due to their backgrounds. Same head who told prospective parents there was zero tolerance for bad behaviour.

This school lost about 8 children to the independent sector. In dd's cohort not one girl got an oxbridge or medicine place at the end of yr 13. First time in its history nd 7 years after the head started. 5 of the 8 who left are at Oxbridge. Many who stayed were brighter but regrettably their parents did not have the means to move them.

It is a disgrace these situations are allowed to prevail.

Primary school - mainstream. Not enough support staff for those kids with SEN. Usually a class has a teacher and a TA, but if TA is already supporting one child with challenging behaviour (and had to remove them to work independently outside as they are 2 years behind) then the other 3-4 that also need support don't get it and they can then proceed onto low level disruption. This is day in, day out, and the teacher is aware that they have to show progress for each child in their learning. It is an impossible task. SEN or AEN - ranging for ASD, ADHD, Dyslexia and Processing disorders, can be observed in many classes of 30+.

Behaviour deteriorates when there is any change - so if a teacher is off sick, it's a struggle with a cover teacher. If it rains and kids have to stay in, again it's another change and behaviour deteriorates.

Interesting exciting lessons is what we want to do, but some children cannot deal with the excitement or stimulation (sometimes because of SEN). This can cause behaviour to (generally) deteriorate.

We have children whose families are on the SS radar. Some families will engage and support, but others will not as they are suspicious of anyone in authority and defensive when you want to discuss their child's behaviour with them.

A lack of funding, and a lack of support from Govt to LA means the school can only do so much.

I'm not sure what the answer is.

I've taught in the same school for a decade. Behaviour has certainly got worse. I feel there are three key factors:

1. New curriculum is asking for too much too young and the children are bored by it. High stakes testing puts too much pressure on schools and takes all joy out of learning. It's all about the data not the children.
2. Cuts mean I have support for 1.5 hours a day (primary) yet I have several children with social & emotional needs, as well as children with ASD, dyslexia and ADHD. There are 35 of them and one of me; I can't support them in the ways I want because there's only me most of the time.
3. When I started parents were very supportive. First sign of poor behaviour and they were on side. Any probs now tend to be excused, almost as though parents are scared of their children. There's a lack of trust and that filters down to the children.

We try to never give whole class punishments.

Secondary teacher -I work in an inner city outstanding comp with the full range of kids from different backgrounds.

Behaviour in our school is very good with a few exceptions. Reasons why it is good:

-No tolerance of low level misbehaviour
-Good support from SLT
-High expectations and achievement
-Massive city wide catchment so less likely to get any entrenched groups who misbehave from primary school

Exceptions:
-Kids with EBD find the high expectations difficult and act up. We don't have loads of examples of more challenging behaviour but I would say probably more than the low level stuff

Behaviour has got worse, especially in a school where the head is unsupportive. I left one school after being slapped across my face by a pupil who I was chatting about his pet dog, another teacher had sent him out of the room and we had an agreed plan that he'd be able to chat with another adult about something neutral. Without warning he slapped me across the face yet the head teacher did nothing about it - she knew what had happened but didn't give me the opportunity for a debrief and expected me to sit all through the staff meeting (ironically dealing with violence in schools) as if nothing had happened.

brizzlemint Unmumsnetty hugs to you. It's a shit situation and unfortunately I can't see it getting better any time soon, if anything it's likely to get worse.

I had a similar incident in a previous job, physically attacked by a child. The response, what did you do to provoke them.

I didn't, I was minding my own business washing paint pots. However, the fact that the first response was to accuse the adult, rather than the reprimand child told me all I needed to know.

My difficult classes each have 3-4 challenging pupils in them. One is a top set but there are several unreachable boys, the easiest of whom sometimes wanders around hitting others with books (not hard but massively intrusive). I also have a bottom set in which throwing pens at me when I was writing on the board was a sport early on. The only way to deal with it is consistently sticking to discipline policy.

All of the schools I've worked in have had discipline issues. At the previous one, the head told me that my Y11 class would respond well to Mars Bars. That was the first school at which I was told to fuck off.

I hate the thought of sending my DCs to secondary.

Right back at you IceRebel

OpalTree

I agree with Noble. If my own dc were stopping other kids from learning i would accept them going to isolation.often the behaviour stems from poor parenting and the lack of acceptance of their child’s behaviour so they never do accept

I've taught in the same school for a decade. Behaviour has certainly got worse. I feel there are three key factors:

1. New curriculum is asking for too much too young and the children are bored by it. High stakes testing puts too much pressure on schools and takes all joy out of learning. It's all about the data not the children.

or parents allow children to get away with a lot more discipline is often poor at home so why would it be better or good at school I am often shocked how some of my sons friends can talk to their parents

My bottom set year 11 class cannot access the new GCSE. Previously i would have felt confident most would get their best gcse with me. This year i dont think half will get a 1. It is too much content and too much vocab they will never use again and will never have heard before. The demands of the new gcse completely disadvantage the lowest ability students. After almost two years, their behaviour is challenging almost every minute of every lesson. It is not their fault, it is the course that is so far beyond their abilities.

Parents are the major lroblem with poor behaviour. If a teacher is phoning you to speak about your child’s behaviour, then yes it absolutely is your child. We dont phone home for a casual chat.

Also this new trend of parents farming their every duty to the school

And simply crying no ones helping ME when challenged

You see it all the time
Parents who think their child is within their rights to challenge challenge challenge

At school
Won’t put their kids to bed a decent hour so their not fuckers at school
Don’t think they shouldn’t have a red undercut

Don’t think their little Barry should have to get told off for wearing Nike air max to school despite the uniform clearly saying shoes and the trainers costing more

Totally agree about the new curriculum being inaccessible for the weakest kids.

The reason it’s so difficult a situation is:

1. Is it terrible for a class to be ruined by a few who act in an anti social way? YES
2. Is it terrible that our solution is further socially isolating the ones who are most vulnerable? YES

These two things are not just opporsites they are the equivalents of different planets.

Take repeat ‘offenders’ who are in self distruct mode and they drain teachers effort, energy and good will...they also take up huge amounts of time away from the majority who can/do behave. They compromise the safety/ safe feeling in the class and inhibit risk taking and stretch for the others. They make teaching awful.

Yet isolation, exclusion or lumping them all together is the equivalent of that awful drug experiment in The Wire and literally limits their already limited life chances.

If anyone has got a real suggestion for how to actually deal with this I would love to know...

I rang my doctors' surgery today. The recorded message at the beginning of the call, stating that they will not tolerate verbal abuse, is a bit of a clue about why we're seeing what we are in schools. Unfortunately though, we do tolerate verbal abuse in schools!

Imagine being a teenager now. Test after test and days spent surrounded by conflict.

I work in AP (a PRU). In answer to the OP, less than you would probably expect, given the setting. The inappropriate language though, is something else...

@thetwinkletoescollective

And while we think of a solution I don’t want them disrupting my child’s education of destroying my kids teachers soul so they leave teaching

Teachers will always struggle teach children whose parents refuse to parent them

Teachers can only meet the students half way the parents have to get them to the other half

Is it terrible that our solution is further socially isolating the ones who are most vulnerable?

I think this very often isn't the case though. Some of my very challenging pupils are simply never told no. Their parents indulge their behaviour. It's rarely the least able kids who are causing the disruption in my experience.