How much is your class disrupted by bad behaviour?

[Catinthetwat]

I was just wondering how much of a problem behaviour is in the classroom. I keep hearing that it's getting out of hand.

Interested to hear from teachers and TA's...

@Claw01 do you mind if I ask where you live?
Like I said earlier I think a lot is based on demographics. We have a high number of ECHP’s already, most without 1:1 support, and as a school we have been fighting endlessly to support others but with no luck. Also we only have 1 child with an ECHO relating to their SEMH and also the first child in 15 years with that type of ECHP. Most have support plans which have been drawn up by the school but they are not ECHP’s and obviously do not come with funding.

@noblegiraffe think about any unwanted behaviour and then ask yourself why?

If children are allowed to piss about then why do you think they make that choice, for a reaction maybe? But no one reacts without a reason.

witch an EHCP is based on needs, it is a legal document and is legally ‘ring fenced’ to that particular child regardless of where you live. School cannot decide to spend funding on anything else.

If your school are illegally spending EHCP funding on other things, maybe this where the problem lies.

@witchtower

Why do I think that a child chooses to piss about with his mates rather than solve quadratic equations?

Erm, because one is a more attractive proposition than the other? Especially if the pissing about has no negative consequences, or one that they are willing to bear.

@Claw01 like I said that doesn’t guarantee you a 1:1. It could be used on a variety of other things.

@noblegiraffe but yet they know they are making the wrong choice. They are making a conscious decision to go against the grain. Why?

Because they are copying friends?

Because they want a giggle from their friends?

Because they are bored?

All reasons for bad behaviour.

@noblegiraffe of course there needs to be consequences.

We don’t just decide to do the wrong thing for be reason?

@Claw01 everyone is overstretched. If a child receives an ECHP but not given a 1:1 who do you think takes on the role in implementing the ECHP. It is mainly the TA. But sometimes the class teacher. Another job added onto the mound of work they already have to do. Imagine having to work with 8 children in one class with ECHP’s. Is it really manageable? Are the children really getting all the support they need?

witchtower funding is spent on what is detailed in the EHCP. An EHCP should set out what needs are and what provision is needed to meet them.

Admittedly LA’s try to be vague with the wording to save money. I wish SENCO’s were more informed when it comes to the Law and EHCP’s so they could support parents in appeals to specify and quantify provision.

Schools don't apply for an ehcp because they are told and believe that they have to spend £6000 first or if they apply and it gets turned down they will have to wait 6 months till they apply again or the child needs to be 3 years behind academically or some other arbitrary rule that the local authority has made up.
Without a clued up and pushy parent the ehcp doesn't happen.
I did the fighting for my own child a few years back but am now involved in fighting for someone else's child in a different local authority. Even with my own experience I am still gobsmacked at the amount of blatant law breaking that is going on. ( Judicial Review not an option since a tribunal case has been started although we are pursuing the LGO route as well).

@Claw01 but my point being is that when you have on average 5-8 ECHP’s in each class then it can be unmanageable. Some plans also include additional requirements such as SALT programs. These become far too unmanageable. Especially considering that the funding doesn’t really touch the sides.

Im dyslexic and bloody terrible with acronyms. I need to stop bloody calling them ECHP. I’ve just stopped calling SEMH, SMEH and CAMH’s, CAHM’s 😩

Please remember that my experiences are probably very extreme. We have a high number of EHCP’s and a very high number of EBD. I’m used to getting punched everyday or a chair lobbed at me. This is mainstream btw.

sockwomble Judicial review applies, regardless of Tribunal process, if your child is out of school and without an education. I can dig out some links for you, if that’s any help? In my experience the pre Judicial review action is enough to get the wheels moving and inexpensive!

witchtower if EHCP funding isn’t touching the sides, it’s due to vague wording in the EHCP, as I mentioned earlier. legally EHCP provision should be specified and quantified. If not, it would be hard to manage any behaviour.

@Claw01 but that is my point exactly. The funding that comes with an EHCP is not enough for a 1:1, when in most cases it is needed so I can’t blame the schools for attempting to use the budget in a way it is beneficial.

My school is on a border with two boroughs. Children who live in one borough are not entitled to a 1:1 due to their funding but the children who live in the other borough are still given their 1:1 as their budget is higher.

witchtower there is no such thing as not entitled to 1:1 depending on Borough. Educational Law is the Law, regardless of Borough. If a child needs 1:1, they can have it! The difficulty is the LA use vague wording in EHCP’s, which is unlawful!

Schools are often spun illegal blanket policies by the LA! Which is why I was saying I wish SENCO’s were more informed or more prepared to inform parents of their rights!

@Claw01 ok so let’s be honest. If the council are already overstretched with funding do you think they are going to suggest 1:1 support? I’m sure they can word it ‘have 1:1 support where necessary’ meaning the TA can have 10mins with that child ‘when needed.’

I understand that your child has been granted an EHCP, which is great. But I am telling you that we do not have the funding or support to deal with the amount of EHCP’s.

How can you manage a class which had 5-8 EHCP’s each? If their needs aren’t being met then that could be a trigger to disruptive behaviour. Then it creates a knock on effect.
I covered a class a few weeks ago, the class was calm then a child with SEMH issues began throwing chairs and kicking cupboards because another child borrowed his template. A template which was meant to be shared. As I focused on this child to calm him down, another child punched someone (unprovoked) and a fight broke out. Whilst this fight broke out another child with autism began jumping around the room. Then a separate child who also has autism began crying and shaking as it was too loud. It was unmanageable. I’m only one person. Sometimes I feel like I need a queue to repair the situations but then I can’t teach but I can’t teach if they have escalated. After escalation it can take hours for the child to calm. If they aren’t calm then they can’t access their learning.

You are telling me what SHOULD happen and I agree but this is not actually what is happening unfortunately. The support is not there. This is what is happening in my borough anyway. I can’t comment on other areas. But I have been working in my borough for 15 years and have worked in/trained/linked to over 10+ schools in my borough.

@Claw01 different boroughs do have different budgets though.

I found this interesting......

specialneedsjungle.com/battle-bands-rise-banding-funding-send/

Yes boroughs have different budgets. This is different to having unlawful blanket policies.

But I am telling you that we do not have the funding or support to deal with the amount of EHCP’s

each EHCP brings its own funding for each individual child, if that child’s needs, outweigh the provision, you review the EHCP and request more funding.

Will the LA volunteer 1:1 funding. No. The way it works. LA instruct experts to assess the child to inform EHCP. LA experts will rarely recommend 1:1 funding or do it in such a vague way, it’s useless and won’t bring any extra funding.

Once EHCP is finalised parents can appeal the EHCP and a judge can order that provision be quantified etc.

EHCP is reviewed annually or sooner, if needs are not being meet. School/parents can request amendments to EHCP. If school request 1:1 and LA refuse, parents can appeal.

Not all parents are aware of their rights. They turn to school, who tell parents the same unlawful info which has been told to them by the LA. Such as in this borough you are not entitled to 1:1 etc.

Which is why I wish SENCO’s were more informed.

@Claw01 and what you’ve suggested above is a very lengthy process. I work closely with the experts who assess. It can be difficult to get them in, as they are busy and overstretched themselves. We have a specific person allocated to our school, who is absolutely lovely. But they have a 30min slot to observe the child and to return if need be. But they return weeks later, and what if that child doesn’t exhibit any behaviours in that 30mins that warrant an EHCP.

Honestly you make complete sense and you are totally right but it’s not that black and white. This leads to so much frustration from staff. Teachers who lose motivation and nothing is done as it should. Roles cut and others expecting to pick them up. This is why so many give up.

I’m not saying you are wrong in any way but there are so many lengthy battles to fight on that journey.

I’m one of those overstretched people. If you see all my posts on this thread you will notice that I’m pulled left, right and centre to fulfil MANY different roles. Because this happens it doesn’t allow to do my official role to the standard that I am happy with.

I think it's one of the big factors in the difference in attainment between state and independent

Yup

I’m not blaming you witchtower, I apologise if that’s how I came across

My posts have been matter of fact to try and correct some myths, not aimed at you personally.

Yes it takes time and doesn’t happen overnight, however it’s better than ploughing on, without. The process takes 20 weeks (without appeals)

Experts assessment to inform EHCP are more than observations. An EP for example has to carry out formal assessments.

There is a timescale in the EHCP process, so school would not be responsible for arranging any expert visits, the LA arrange them.