How should white people refer to other races (in UK)

[seesawteddy]

I am not being provocative, I genuinely need to know what words are offensive because I think I mess up sometimes.
I thought ‘brown people’ was okay because that’s what my Indian friends use to refer to themselves and each other, but just read on here it’s offensive, so must just be the norm for my group of mates.

Another one is ‘people of colour / PoC, it’s the term my friend from Iraq uses and he’s doing a phd to do with race equaity. But I’ve had a few funny look recently when I used it.

The problem with Asian/Midde Eastern/Pakistani etc is sometimes I don’t know what someone’s heritage is, and also I think it is rude if they are actually British citizens.

So if I want to say something like “What have been the experiences of ___ in UK airports?”
How would I say it?

DoubtOfTheOrdinary I would use skin colour in those circumstances, definitely. But, I don't work for the NHS :)

But, a lot of people on MM say they have trouble with this and they're not in a similar situation to you. I just wonder why they're always having conversations where skin colour is paramount and why they need to highlight it. That was all...

I meet people a lot for work and you get some people that are like my indian friend this, my african colleague that in conversations where it's not relevant - rather than use their names. This categorisation seems important to them. I also have some slightly racist family that LOVE to categorise or make sly remarks about groups of people. So, although I could be wrong, I'm wondering if some people that are used to speaking like this and having these conversations, feel put out by the "ever changing" rules.

“DoubtOfTheOrdinary I would use skin colour in those circumstances, definitely. ”
So would I, of course. And very occasionally, in similar circumstances I have. But it’s very unusual, surely? These threads always seem to suggest it’s an ongoing and recurring issue.

I just wonder why they're always having conversations where skin colour is paramount and why they need to highlight it. That was all...
Agreed.

you get some people that are like my indian friend this, my african colleague that in conversations where it's not relevant - rather than use their names. This categorisation seems important to them. I also have some slightly racist family that LOVE to categorise or make sly remarks about groups of people. So, although I could be wrong, I'm wondering if some people that are used to speaking like this and having these conversations, feel put out by the "ever changing" rules
I find pointing out characteristics when they are not relevant is annoying.

Agree @DoubtOfTheOrdinary - in situations where you meet lots of new people each day at work, descriptors including skin colour/apparent race - help (but sex,height, glasses, hair colour also useful).

I don’t think people are gonna be able to not offend everyone and also be specific. Some PPs prefer ‘brown’, others don’t like it. Someone said that ‘coloured’ in S. Africa has different connotations to US and UK.

Prefacing it with a bit of vagueness (eg ‘I think’ or ‘East Asian-looking man’) gives the people a chance to ‘correct’ you if they found it offensive. I’m quite chilled about what terms people use about me as long as they’re well-meaning - which they usually are. I have relatives that get annoyed though (eg with the implication that they’re not British).

I am white, and with very complicated national origins, but I look like the perfect stereotype of one “bit” of my heritage. All the other bits of my gene pool appear to have forgotten to make an appearance. I don’t think anyone has ever described me as “the Irish looking one”......

mixed race for, you know, mixed race people

I'd say it can be quite hard to discern just from looking if someone is mixed-race or merely has that skin-colour without being mixed-race?

Mixed-race doesn't mean you look bang in the middle of your parents' looks Jobberknoll - like any other family you might take after one parent more than another, or even look the spitting image of a grandparent.

@NunoGoncalves I’m sorry I still DON’T understand “south Asian” to mean from India or Pakistan.. Have you ever looked at a map of Asia? There’s quite “a lot” in the Sputhern half.

Yes, some people get mentionitis “I was talking to the black woman in the shop” “I was chatting to an Asian man at the bus stop and he said.......”

Jobber you're so over thinking it. It's like you're determined to find "difficulty" where there really isn't any.

Mixed-race doesn't mean you look bang in the middle of your parents' looks Jobberknoll - like any other family you might take after one parent more than another, or even look the spitting image of a grandparent.

But this is sort of my point. The PP said it "isn't hard" and that you just users "mixed-race for mixed-race people" by which, I assumed they were going by a "mixed skin colour", hence me saying how would you know? You cannot tell if someone is mixed just from looking.

And if you cannot tell that someone is mixed-race just by looking, how can you say "it's easy, just use mixed-race for MR People". You'd have to ask them!

Jobber you're so over thinking it. It's like you're determined to find "difficulty" where there really isn't any.

What? No, I'm just confused about how you can tell someone is mixed-race just from looking.

Jobber "You cannot tell if someone is mixed just from looking."

exactly! The number of countries I've been linked to, I couldn't point to most of them on a map. Before or after that, irritating guessing types go for mixed race.

Imma tell the next person who asks that the stork dropped me off. I might have heard that from a fellow MNer, so apols if I have and haven't credited them.

Lol so true!!

Particularly as I suspect many of them have not interacted with a non white person since 1997........

What does "minority ethnic " in BME mean?

Can you not be white but also minority ethnic?

I believe it's Black And Minority Ethnic. It includes Irish travellers for example. @littlechristmasmouse

@itwouldtakemuchmore - I know geographically it’s not specific but ‘south’ (eg India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), ‘east’ (eg China, Japan, Korea), ‘south-east’ (eg Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia) and ‘central’ (eg Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan) - I find helpful to distinguish different parts (like ‘scandinavian’ or ‘mediterranean’ or ‘eastern’ in the case of Europe).

I understand what the initials stand for. I am just confused as to who is included within it.

It seems people are using BME to describe everyone who isn't white and then white as a catch all term, but ME could clearly describe a white person too presumably?

So is BME actually a meaningful term?

"So is BME actually a meaningful term?"

I think it's useful in organisations and charities where they might have a separate team that handles issues for people that are not within the majority in the UK. So, that could include helping Irish travellers and black people. I guess it's helpful as a signpost to the right people/team.

But not in differentiating within white people I guess?

So describing a person as white would then exclude them from support available as ME?

Usually when you seek support as a BAME person, you would give more detail. It's not done on sight. So, those who are white and still fit into the ME category would still get the support, same as anyone else.

@Namenic except the Mediterranean and Scandinavia are easily identifiable regions, and assuming “Eastern Europe” actually means countries on the hard left of a map of Europe, and doesn’t exclude European countries that are further East, it’s not really the same thing at all. You can adopt any shorthand you please but I think “South Asian” = Indian is fairly ridiculous.

ME includes any ethnic minorities. There are white ethnic minorities, such as travellers.