AIBU to think Brexit has shone light on a really unpleasant racist underbelly allowing it to flourish?

[KennDodd]

I know, I know not all Leavers are racist, really, I do know that. But the (lovely, non racist) Leavers must be able to see this, they really cant be blind to the unsavoury characters and groups promoting Brexit for all their worth. I don't know what can be done about this, if there's any way to put these groups back in the box?

David Lammy [the racist]And his aggressive finger pointing is going to cause a lot of shit.

phlebas I also see that reflected in ds’s primary school. The amount of racist comments he’s received is unbelievable. Kids - children! - telling him to go back to his country, he doesn’t belong here. I dread to think what these kids are hearing at home and I’m disgusted by parents who speak like his in front of their kids. The school are doing their best but it’s not even touching the edges.

To a previous poster who wanted more immigration control - the EU regulations regarding immigration are stricter than what the UK government actually enforced. The UK government is choosing not to follow the EU’s stricter rules. So any Leavers hoping to reduce immigration have handed more power to a government that consistently chooses to not reduce immigration.

Sorry if that’s already been mentioned. At least it bears repeating.

Gingham Sorry, how is he racist? Do you have any examples? I haven’t see that side of him so it would be interesting to see what I’ve missed

Look for it yourself not hard to find.

You can’t even be bothered to support your own evidence so I’ll assume you have none!

Seriously, back it up or shut up.

I remember before the referendum how if anyone on the likes of Question Time mentioned controlling immigration they were branded racist. If you were against FOM you are branded racist. If you thought that illegal immigrants should take up an offer of money by the government to return to your country of origin, you are racist. If you believed that there would be more and more uncontrolled immigration from the likes of Turkey because the UK government would never dare stop it for fear of being accused of being racist, again you are a racist.

I actually find FOM racist as a poster up thread said. It is completely geared towards predominantly white Christian people. I want everyone in the world to be treated the same in that they should all be measured on their own merits not their country of origin. Oddly Gerald Batton has espoused this view too!! So it's not quite as simple as just righting off a whole section of the community who have more right wing views as racist. You will get no where in trying to understand their view and debate properly with them if all you do is show the racist card every time.

Peregrina You misunderstand me. If we vote, that vote is with the majority, and that vote is ignored or overturned, then that vote is worthless, and is a fig leave for the elected to hide behind.

I misunderstand nothing. If we vote, the result is what the law says it is, and in this case it said it was an advisory referendum i.e. an opinion poll. Just because Leavers don't like that doesn't change the law.

As for the elected i.e. HoC - the fact that they are totally split and can't agree a way forward shows that the matter is complex. Some MPs, at least, are trying to do what they think is for the good of the country.

As for fig leaves - May's behaviour in losing her majority but carrying on regardless as though she had her 100 majority after stitching up a deal with a party that people in 3 countries in the UK can't vote for and half the population of NI won't vote for begins to come close.

I think we could do with a shock like this (nobody had been killed or seriously hurt at this point) to remind us how bad racism is and were it leads

You would think that the very recent horrific hate fuelled anti immigrant attack on the mosques in New Zealand would have delivered this reminder? But I don't think it has.

Make no mistake these recent horrific murders of innocent men, women and children were fuelled by the murderer's 87-page manifesto filled with anti-immigrant ideas. There is only a small leap between the ideas of UKIP, Laxley Yennon and yes Farage too and the ideology of white supremacists like that evil Brenton Tarrant, or the murderer of Jo Cox.

David Lammy is right - we should make no mistakes here. Something very frightening has insidiously become more mainstream and it must be stopped.

We have potential candidates for PM like Rees-Mogg consorting with and legitimising the 'Traditional' Britain Group. A movement that calls for Doreen Lawrence and “millions of others” to be requested to return to their "natural homelands”.

It is not a question of yippee we have left that lucrative trading bloc -no more EU citizens - job done. It will be who are the next targets and the next and the next ...

@Doubletrouble99

So it's not quite as simple as just righting off a whole section of the community who have more right wing views as racist

Most posters are not doing this. Most Remainers acknowledge that not all leaver voters are racists.

However, the Brexit cause has been hijacked by the extreme right. There is a clear link between U.S white supremacists, Breitbart, Farage, UKIP, Yaxley-Lennon and the extreme right in Europe.

Brexit supporters need to be distancing themselves and drawing a line in the sand and they aren't doing that. They want the U.K. to leave the EU at any cost and if that cost is allowing the right to rise then so be it.

This is a terrible prospect and will lead to more division more hate and more conflict.

We have demonstrated that as a country we are not able to debate immigration in a sensible way to our utter shame.

There is racism in every political party and on both sides of the referendum

I dont see the problem with pointing that out on occasion, even though others apparently do on this thread

I completely agree with posters who say that the alt right have latched on to this subject

Should say that i do believe that some voters voted leave for racist reasons

I don't believe that remain voters voted for racist reasons

They may have done of course...i just can't see any reasons why that would be the case

I haven’t seen anything David Lammy has done which is racist. It’s interesting that when a non white person complains or shines a light on racism, they are attacked as being racist e.g. that group supported by Rees-Mogg who want Steven Lawrence’s mum kicked out of the country for daring to expose corruption in the police following the death of her son.

Apparently for some, if you’re non native Brit, you must be willing to accept all kinds of poor treatment quietly and not rock the boat. All black people must engage in non threatening buffoonery like Frank Bruno in order to be acceptable in the eyes of many as well as in the MSM.

It’s the same as class. If a poor, disadvantaged person tries to speak up about their rights or or how society is stacked against them, people will jump on them to quash it before the disobedience spreads.

We must all quietly accept our place.

unfinished

I thought he was great when i saw him on the andrew marr show

I don't understand how he is racist and as a pp said upthread accusations of racism should really be backed up...with actual evidence

Sorry unfinished *

I should say that i agree with your post

Similar happens on MN threads, if a poster says something is racist there is always someone who says they are racist...for noticing the racist thing

Which is weird

YANBU and the Conservatives are very deliberately stoking the fire and courting the far right.
Calling themselves Grand Wizards? Writing articles mocking the appearance of Muslim women?
It's a cynical move to appeal to those Little Englanders who bemoan the fact they're not allowed to use casual racism coz it's "pc gorn maaaad".
It's utterly sickening.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/08/vote-leave-racism-brexit-uncivil-war-channel-4

What gets me is the insidious nature of it all.

Take my friend's Mum who is very active on social media. She is a proactive Leaver. and also posts stuff from her church. So I'd expect her to be compassionate and kind.

On social media when the Nice, Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan etc attacks happen she posts these news stories and expresses support and prayers for the victims. By contrast when the Christchurch terrorist attacked she says nothing at all.

It's hard to explain but her silence over one attack compared to her other responses is not a coincidence. Even in some one I believe to be a good person here's a tacit insidious distinction that's disturbing.

Of course it's not all Leavers. It would be very worrying if there were 17 million racists in our midst. Also I've just given one example and all Christians do not respond like that either. But there is a racist underbelly there, and I'm worried that it's creeping to be an overbelly if there is such s thing.

rufus totally right a poster up thread asked why brits weren't doing agricultural work and when I gave my opinion on economically why that was twice I was accused of being racist!! I'm mixed race ffs and fight racism daily.

Rufus, it's just a technique employed by those who don't have a logical argument but irrationally wish to defend an indefensible position. Twist a statement and turn it back on whoever made the original statement, accusing them of whatever ism has been mentione d. It's employed a lot on brexit threads, together with first claim to victim status e.g. You called me a racist leaver, how unfair, you horrible racist liberal, when you've simply mentioned the time of day, so to speak. Yaxley Lennon screaming Nazi Fascist at Anna Soubry being a perfect example. Projection, I think it's called.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

The link upthread about 400 "workers" being rescued under slavery laws should give you a clue.

To what boney

Lammy?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

Sorry should have been explicit

To why some remainers would vote remain.

Oh i see...will have a look in a minute

thanks