To ask why some mum's don't care about feminism?

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I have a daughter. I want her to have the same rights as her brother, the same opportunities, the same life experiences.
I try not to bore but I think that any mum who has a daughter should be interested in feminist issues, if not for herself. Yet I still feel that not enough people give a shit.
I post on another group where mum's dissect every part of the parenting experience. We're talking thread after thread of car seats, which sling to buy, how to talk a toddler out of a tantrum without using negative language. Yet when I posted about how we can encourage girls to get into STEM I got no response. Does anyone care? I feel like I get nowhere when I try to get the debate going about how we should give our daughters the best toolkits to go off there and be amazing. In real life too, I sometimes feel people glaze over when I talk about equal rights, like it doesn't effect them. You are a woman, you should care!!

There is no reason to think that just because people aren't interested in finding random women in STEM fields as possible role models for their daughters mean they are not interested in girls having the same rights as boys (I do not see why or how my children as individuals should have the same life experiences and no two people have the same potential).

There are dozens of branches of feminism, and just because someone disagrees with an aspect of one or any of them or are not interested in one particular idea from a feminist doesn't mean they don't care about sex equality or feminism in general.

Personally, I don't like the hyperfocus on STEM fields as the way to get sex equality, I don't see why I should be encouraging any of my kids into particular fields rather than giving them wide exposure to a wide range of things they can do and I find the idea that I should be specifically looking for strangers to encourage my children in certain areas absurd. While there is a lot of anecdotal evidence, the research on media and such representation to encourage people to do particularly well or be interested in an area does not have very good evidence for it, if anything, a lot of it shows it is at best neutral and some show a detrimental effect of having someone who shares a few traits with us held up for us.

People we actually know and can talk and access to resources and materials in the area to tends to work better than historical or celebrity figures we see from a distance. No amount of pictures and bios matters if there is no one to talk to or no places close by to be able to try those things, without those, it's little more than a fairy tale we may feel judged against - that we are not 'good women' for failing those ideals.

I think the 'best toolbox' has nothing to do with STEM specifically, but taking an individualized approach that looks realistically at that they need. I don't need any of my kids to be 'amazing', I certainly don't think I am, but they will need good communication skills along with emotional, social, and technical competency, understanding of the world around them and the areas that interest them, what they can help solve problems and make things better, and many other basics that will do them and others good no matter what their future employment is, which is only a tiny fraction of who they will be as adults.

I think some women genuinely don’t think that sexism exists or that it has done them any favours. They don’t see how limited women’s choices were even one generation ago. My own mother was not allowed to pursue the career she wanted in medicine because it was deemed a waste of time by her parents as she would give it up upon having kids! That was in the 70s/80s. Women have had to fight really hard to get where we are now. Also a lot of women don’t realise until they have kids how sexist the world still is. We are in a man’s world.

What is the preoccupation with STEM subjects anyway? Is a career in it considered to be the pinnacle of success for men as well as women?

I have a son and daughter, neither interested in STEM but both very interested in the humanities. Does that mean they have both failed?

LittleChristmasmouse that’s what I.m trying to articulate. Why is STEM seen as the ultimate career to aspire to?

Why is STEM seen as the ultimate career to aspire to?

It isn’t - it’s just a very large area of industry that women are massively underrepresented in. Having more women in the industries responsible for design, medicine, etc would make the world better for all women, not just those within STEM careers.

My parents and their friend when I was growing up were immigrants from an East Asian country. None were slogan shouting, or even whispering, feminists. However, the majority of the daughters they had (well, TBH, sons also) studied STEM subjects and went into medicine/tech/law/engineering.

The key, give your children no option but to go into those fields and disparage any humanities or arts related fields.

You’d get loads of STEM grads, but not a great amount of happy children.

Some feminists can be really aggressive in how they put their point across, to the stage where it actually puts people off, even if they might have been sympathetic to your argument. If you think someone is wrong you challenge their argument and tell them why you think they are wrong. When you get angry and aggressive at them you lose the argument and turn people away.

I encourage my daughter to follow any interest including stem and 'girl' things like her ballet. If she wants to do something then we encourage that.

I don't see myself as a feminist though.

Pushing children into anything is a bad idea.
None of my kids were interested in STEM jobs, boys or girl, it just wasn't for them.
There are plenty of other things for them to be interested in.
Mine would have dropped Science and Maths before GCSE if allowed.

OopsOhNoZHM you encapsulate my view totally. As a mum of 2 boys I'm keen to impress on them the idea of "equality" rather than "feminism" per se as I think feminism means different things to all. I like you am a bit disheartened by the "girls run the world" idea and feel that our kids should be taught that their only limits are their ability, ambition & hard work. There's no reason you can't do whatever you want, if you're willing to work hard enough, be you male or female.

Because they don't see the everyday sexism, because it permeates every aspect of women's lives, and because they don't see that, they don't see the accuumulation of it and what it causes to happen.

There is also the shame element. Some women are happy to be the martyr, but also because they'd have to accept that aspects of their life were 'bad/wrong' and they weren't able to see it. Making them the fool in some way for also not fixing it.

The "in my day..." brigade also have a lot to answer for. Because they saw it, and didn't fix it. So a mix of guilt and stubborn pride maybe too.

I would not describe myself as a feminist and encourage my daughters to pursue their true interests. I’m a senior academic in Engineering. I find most feminists talk the talk but few have walked the walk.

Although as a previous poster has said... I do not call myself a feminist. As the term in it's own right is not equal, regardles of what it's definition is. The word 'feminist' will be feminism's own downfall.

Equalitarian, humanist, equalist maybe?

More 'stop putting people in gender norm boxes you dull bunch of cunts' but it's hard to put that in a single word and the acronym is a bit poo 😁

Also I feel the iodine deficiency in the west at present has a lot to answer for in terms of general intelligence and understanding of most things. A less intelligent population = less progress in all aspects of life and more sheep.

ScreamScreamIceCream Asian and African women don't share these genes.

Hmm, it's almost like saying predispositions to certain jobs is a genetic thing is a load of old guff?! Who'd a thot it

Some feminists can be really aggressive in how they put their point across

I think a lot of people are so deeply socialised that women are meant to be nice and compliant, that when they say exactly the same things a man does, she gets called (negative) aggressive and bolshy, whereas he gets (positive) assertive and strong.

Equalitarian, humanist, equalist maybe?

My take is that's the ideal. But currently societies aren't yet equal, those ruddy gender boxes still exist (and some people are reinforcing them nowadays). There are pernicious problems such as 'women's' jobs being systematically undervalued relative to 'mens' jobs - and that's before you even consider the inequities arising because of men's utter crapness at having babies.

I’ve a 16mo dd and another dd due in 2 weeks . I haven’t got the energy to worry about discussing stem! I’m knee deep in nappies , sleep deprivation , trying to keep everyone safe and avoid meltdowns. If it’s a forum where the parents are of very young kids, you’ve probably just got the wrong audience. I’m sure when my two dds are older I’ll think about these things a lot more.

Why is STEM seen as the ultimate career to aspire to?

/// In addition to being areas where women are typically underrepresented they are also areas that can be much higher paid than those women are over represented in such as caring professions. So by encouraging DD to consider a career in STEM as one of many, many options I suppose I'm encouraging her to aim where the money is should that be her motivator.

Chemenger can I ask what you mean by few feminists have walked the walk? Not being goady, genuinely curious as to what you mean.

I studied Engineering in the 80’s when (to be a little goady) the feminist society at uni were doing sociology and psychology with all the other women. I was the first girl in my school to to technical subjects. I worked in chemical plants, managed all male operators, then was one of the first female engineering academics in my discipline, went to conferences where I was the only woman etc. The feminists went to conferences where they were only with like minded people. I have been a role model, they have just been talking.

I am in a male dominated profession and tbh I'd encourage my daughter to do a female dominated one. She'll face less sexism through her career, others will have already paved the way with flexible working and being in senior positions. For example I'd rather she was a head teacher or head of department than have to give up her career due to being told she can't work flexibly and seeing young boys promoted past her while she's on maternity leave. I know that's not trailblazing for women but it might be better for her.

there are so many feminists who don't want equality but want to get where they want to by putting men down.
We've come along way andwe are equal.

I believe in equality and considered myself a feminist until someone else who considered themself a feminist told me I let women down by not having a job.
Erm, I used my choice which is what I thought previous generations fought for.

To be fair Romany, you’re on another thread at the moment saying that every couple with children should have one parent that chooses to stay at home, so I suspect your views won’t resonate with many feminists.

So many people were horrified and have said to him he can’t like dolls/be a nurse because he is a boy

DS2 is a nurse. I had to go into his secondary school, on more than one occasion, because teachers would laugh when he said that's what he wanted to be. It was always women and they'd scoff at him saying "ooh you don't! Don't be daft. What do you really want to be?" All hell would have broken loose had they had said that to a girl who wanted a career in STEM. He got more support from 14yo boys.

Chemenger, wow you sound very accomplished in your field. Thank you for expanding.

I think feminists are in every walk of life doing all sorts of careers and you can "walk the walk" in different ways. What matters is that you are doing something

I’m not really accomplished I just haven’t let being female stop me doing what I wanted to do.