To ask why some mum's don't care about feminism?

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I have a daughter. I want her to have the same rights as her brother, the same opportunities, the same life experiences.
I try not to bore but I think that any mum who has a daughter should be interested in feminist issues, if not for herself. Yet I still feel that not enough people give a shit.
I post on another group where mum's dissect every part of the parenting experience. We're talking thread after thread of car seats, which sling to buy, how to talk a toddler out of a tantrum without using negative language. Yet when I posted about how we can encourage girls to get into STEM I got no response. Does anyone care? I feel like I get nowhere when I try to get the debate going about how we should give our daughters the best toolkits to go off there and be amazing. In real life too, I sometimes feel people glaze over when I talk about equal rights, like it doesn't effect them. You are a woman, you should care!!

Dh works in the STEM area I'm a teacher.

Never pushed our kids into anything they make their own minds up.

One dd wants to work in the beauty industry other one wants to be on the stage. DS wants to be a F1 driver this week it was a dinosaur hunter last week ( he is 6 )

I'm more bothered about finding 1 dinner that all 3 will eat and dealing with various age tantrums and hormones and exams than debating feminist issues on a parenting board.

I think perhaps posting on a thread about car seats and slings about STEM fir girls is the wrong audience!!

Also as others say girls grow up nowadays not knowing they are not supposed to do certain things they just do them.

I think you have an old fashioned approach.

I think it's a cultural thing in the UK of not many girls taking up STEM subjects. Middle eastern/African countries have quite a large take up.

I have sons and want equality for all.

One of my sons wants to be a nurse, loves pink and he also loves dolls and for Christmas he asked for a set with high chair/car seat etc for his doll. So many people were horrified and have said to him he can’t like dolls/be a nurse because he is a boy, I tell him that people can do and like whatever they want. I would rather encourage boys and girls to be who they want to be instead of just focusing on girls.

Because ultimately people just want their children to be happy perhaps.
I will openly admit that I don’t think of feminism as an important issue in my life. I had aspirations for a job and I worked hard to achieve it. The differences between men and women didn’t even enter my mind. Ultimately though, I just wanted to be a mum and that is my dream job. I don’t think that is something to be ashamed of. I am capable of achieving what I want and have done so. I think what should be encouraged is happiness. If that be in a STEM subject then great, if not then that is also great. I don’t think you should push something that your children may not want to do, they could end up resenting you for being forceful.

I disagree wholeheartedly with PP who think maybe STEM isn't the be all end all and thats why some parents arent worried.

The world our children will grow up in means that whatever they do STEM will feature and you're doing them a disservice to not push then in that direction. And the person who said you need to take baby steps and not press it when they are toddlers. BOLLOCKS. The gender divide has already begun by then. Boys are already being given toys that teach them about building and movement.

But I also think this isn't just abiut mums or just about daughters!.

.app.goo.gl/2bUkjdCFogfMJPbT6
This is Dr Anne Marie Imafidon, the founder of the Stemettes which helps girls and young women get into tech, science and engineering.
One point that she raised which I totally agree with is that men have more self confidence than women. If women look at a job description which lists ten desirable qualities and they have eight, they’ll write themselves off. If a man reads the same job description he’ll think ‘well I’ve got four of the qualities so I’ll try and blag it.’
My question is how do we try to raise our daughters to have the self confidence to achieve as much as their male peers? There’s still a lot of emphasis on ‘not showing off’ and being ‘modest’ about our achievements but shouldn’t we be more outspoken about how amazing we all are?

Don't drag boys down to boost girls up.

how is encouraging girls to take STEM subjects dragging boys down? That's levelling the playing field...nobody's telling boys not to go into STEM to try and increase the level of girls applying. I think it's interesting that levelling the playing field, or trying to achieve equality, is seen as some kind of oppression against boys.

Reminds me of a quote: "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

That was my post, the link doesn't work on here.

I repeatedly find that feminism is ruined by feminists.

Or more to the point ths small group of feminists who shout loudest.

Do you ha e to be into STEM to be a feminist? Fuck me I'm doing it all wrong in HR.

And all of our daughters and sons are ezposed to comments like

he's such a boy

It's funny the girls always end up in the corner colouring (whilst ignoring the biys sat there drawing as well)

what a beautiful dress you have in and lovely hair

boys are always messy and ruining their clothes (ignoring the fact they tell their daughters to avoid ruining their pretty clothes but let their sons run free)

So many people were horrified and have said to him he can’t like dolls/be a nurse because he is a boy

This is a very good point. Why are traditionally female things so bad? Why do girls need to be pushed into traditionally male things but the opposite is somehow shocking? It is far more important that all children are raised to believe they can be whatever they want to be (although DS1's childhood ambition to be an alligator remains unfulfilled).

repeatedly find that feminism is ruined by feminists.Or more to the point ths small group of feminists who shout loudest.

Nothing worse than shouting about your lack of rights.. Those obnoxious suffragettes. Throwing themselves under horses. Should have just asked nicely.

I boost my daughters’ confidence by supporting them in their talents, for one it was maths (all the way to phd then... oh.... job market reality), another it was dance and art and the youngest loves everything still. That’s how to make self- confident women. Not one specific path. All their routes are equally valid. They grew up with any toys they desired, one chose a bubble of pink fluff (as did her brother for a few years!).

There’s not a right or a wrong, and role models in reality are friends and family at that age. I just read a lot in front of them, exercised and ate well and projected a calm confident attitude. I’m past the point in engaging in the stem for girls/ dance for boys stuff as it gets tedious and I’m confident I have the balance at home (well unless there’s a good subsidy involved, then I’m there).

This is a very good point. Why are traditionally female things so bad? Why do girls need to be pushed into traditionally male things but the opposite is somehow shocking

I don't think its the people demanding better for their daughters who are shocked by boys liking traditionally feminine things though.

Oh, and I’ve been a successful woman without stem. I followed a good career path that has supported my life, but not validated me as a worthy person.

In terms of stem I guess you'd want to discuss something more specific related to the stage they are at.

If your children are toddlers - which toys are boys getting more access too that help them in STEM. I hear boys are given toys that have motion more than girls and construction toys. (I only had little boys) I had lots of little girls to play though and they all played very happily with all the toys I had - but very few had cars, trains, magnet kits and so on at home that were theirs (they might have access to their brothers - but that was then seen as 'for boys' ).

(we had dolls, ironing boards, kitchens, tea sets, sparkly shoes and fairy stuff too btw)

I don't think choosing women in STEM was the best choice of topic as many people still believe university is not a realistic option

You don't have to go to university to have a job in STEM. One of DD's pals is doing an engineering apprenticeship with EDF ... I think you may have accidentally shown how people do think differently about opportunities for girls and boys.

No one (family, teachers, tv programmes, characters in the books she reads etc) has ever told her she can't do something 'because she is a girl'.

Are you sure about that? If so, maybe she's just been lucky - I gave a specific example upthread of this happening, but sometimes it's more subtle and insidious. E.g. the 'role model' thing.

By the way it's not STEM anymore it is STEAM. It now includes art.

My question is how do we try to raise our daughters to have the self confidence to achieve as much as their male peers?

You don't you raise your child to be confident in there own skin.

I haven't raised any of my children (2 girls & 1 boy) to be what they want, what they are interested.

And my eldest (15 yrs girl) is very interested in STEAM and does extra science and help run the STEAM club at her high school. And is looking to do a science based degree at the moment along the lines of forensics.

You have to have the confidence in yourself to raise your children whether male or female to have the confidence to go for what they want.

My question to you is what are YOU going to do if your child is not interested in any STEAM subjects.

It was a bit of a random post if most other group members are in the baby/ toddler stage. At the moment, my headspace on issues to do with my children is reserved for potty training and settling a collicy baby that fights sleep. I’d have ignored your post too but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be interested later on or wouldnt encourage my girls to develop maths skills.

You’d have had a better response grounding your post in the practical and short-term E.g toys that encourage spatial awareness or counting rather than something a bit more philosophical.

You see Errol that’s my own experience. No one ever said I couldn’t do anything. They even didn’t say anything when I toyed with joining the Air Force to to air traffic control when I would be THE WORST air traffic controller ever.

My girls and boys and all their friends think they can do anttjing. That’s our job to promote. That equal should mean just that.

And why does “Stemettes^ irritate the shit out of me as much as it does?

I don't think the OP is saying you have to force your child into stem just that they should be getting what the boys are. So stem toys and the ability to see people like them doimg these jobs.

And again just because some of didnt need it doesn't change the fact that all of us will in 20 years.

Ignoring tech is basically the same as not teaching a child to read in 2019. They won't function if they aren't tech literate.

Do you follow Let Toys Be Toys on Facebook and/or Twitter?

They do some great stuff on sexism that'd be more relevant and accessible to parents focussed on looking after their young kids.

My question to you is what are YOU going to do if your child is not interested in any STEAM subjects.

I can't imagine the op - or any other feminist - saying anything other than 'support them in what does interest them'.

It's all about equipping children, physically and mentally, to fulfill their individual potential regardless of their sex. Can't see how that's irrelevant on a parenting forum at any stage really. (I hope no-ones implying newish mums brains have turned to mush so they can't think about the next stages or broader issues?)