To ask why some mum's don't care about feminism?

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I have a daughter. I want her to have the same rights as her brother, the same opportunities, the same life experiences.
I try not to bore but I think that any mum who has a daughter should be interested in feminist issues, if not for herself. Yet I still feel that not enough people give a shit.
I post on another group where mum's dissect every part of the parenting experience. We're talking thread after thread of car seats, which sling to buy, how to talk a toddler out of a tantrum without using negative language. Yet when I posted about how we can encourage girls to get into STEM I got no response. Does anyone care? I feel like I get nowhere when I try to get the debate going about how we should give our daughters the best toolkits to go off there and be amazing. In real life too, I sometimes feel people glaze over when I talk about equal rights, like it doesn't effect them. You are a woman, you should care!!

Why is it just down to 'mums'?

My brother is very vocal about feminism on behalf of his two girls!

You are being hypocritical here

Think op has read a couple of articles and is trying to be cool and 'right on'

In a wider context I can see where you're coming from - my extended family is very quick to spot gendered behavior, talk about how cousins with huge age gap will play together 'because they're boys', assign girl toys etc., and have different standards for boys and girls.

I find it hardest to understand from the parents of boys & girls - why do you press gender so hard when your girls will lose out?

I can see them being directed towards the very narrow parameters of what 'nice little girls' do, and it drives me batty.

Other than giving them LEGO instead of the aforementioned girl toys and trying to challenge the gendered comments I don't know what to do... They're not my children, all I can do is try to be some sort of feminist role model

I think a lot of women have switched off from feminism publicly - IE taking part in social media debates. I am one of them. Feminism is very important to me and I live by my feminist principles and share them with other women in real life, but I have my own definition of what feminism is, and a lot of the time when people post things about it online it's something that I don't especially agree with and in more extreme cases it can be stuff that I find downright toxic and unhelpful to women. The unfortunate side effect to this is that when someone posts something that does sound positive I would still probably be reluctant to get involved because I'd worry that a bunch of extremists would jump into the conversation and I simply can't be bothered.

What ever her reasons for posting about stem are irrelevant. The more girls we get into stem the more we will start designing and developing a world around us that serves all our needs. We need more women designing things like car seats and baby slings as well as finding cures for cancer. Mock the op all you like but getting more women into stem is important.

No one (family, teachers, tv programmes, characters in the books she reads etc) has ever told her she can't do something 'because she is a girl'.

They don't need anyone explicitly telling them though. The whole world sneaks it in like a light mist you can't even really see.

How people interact with her
The clothes in shops
The characters on TV and film
The toys everywhere
etc
etc

It's an extremely well known phenomena. You can be proud you personally are trying not to actively affect her, but it will just slip out through words or actions.

I really wish this full series was still available on iplayer, but there are a couple of clips at the link: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09202jz
Article about above prog: www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/happened-primary-school-went-gender-neutral/
And more here also:

listverse.com/2014/06/27/10-depressing-experiments-about-sex-and-gender/

DD will be studying a STEM subject at university later this year. However, it wasn't at the forefront of my mind when she was small enough to require a car seat.

I’d take issue with your OP that mums of daughters should be interested in feminism. Why aren’t you wondering about dads of daughters, or parents of boys? It’s down to society as a whole to care about the issue!

In my family, I focus on positive male and female role models, the fact we don’t have “blue jobs” and “pink jobs” when it comes to chores (as someone I know labels them, depending on how traditionally male or female they are) etc. STEM doesn’t really come into it, I think that’s a narrow viewpoint - spreading feminism for me is more about how we live than what job we do.

Of course we should be raising all our kids to be feminists what ever gender however the boys are not going to have the same struggles as the girls out in the wider world in terms of sexism, sexual assault, job opportunities, unequal pay etc etc. So yes I do tend to lay it on more thickly with the girls. Does that make me sexist

We can try to counteract sexism in school and at home but sexism is rife in all forms of media.
The overwhelming majority of dialogue in films is given to men. Men talk and do actions. Women talk about men!
In children's books, there are twice as many male lead characters than girls. Monsters, strong animal characters are male, docile ones are female.
Watch the TV shows and adverts with your kids, They are being fed this stereotype every day.
So yes, both parents should point out these stereotypes to their DSs and DDs.

There are all kinds of different ways to do feminism, and quite frankly pushing a toddler into STEM because they are a girls just daft.

I'm a mum of just boys and a feminist it's not just mums of daughters who need to take interest in women's rights.Toxic masculinity hurts everybody.

With regard to STEM toys, just search for age appropriate STEM toys, she doesn't need anything special just because she's a girl.

I have ds and dd and I tell them that they can be whatever they want to be and do whatever they want (within legal and moral limits). Mine are interested in STEM. Maybe because I am so I’ve always naturally pointed out things and exposed them to science and nature as just part of every day life.
They have lots of science books at home. Usborne do some really good ones. They also love to watch documentaries.
My dd loves to play football with her brother. I read books like Stories for Rebel Girls and Boys who Dare to be Different just to inspire them to be whoever they want to be.
I remember when ds (age 6) asked me once if men could be teachers as he had never come across any. We had a good conversation then!
Feminism is a part of what I talk to them about but I’m more about letting my kids be who they want to be.

I'm the only female in my company, my STEM company. Admittedly there are only 4 of us but still. I am the mother of a son. He will be encouraged to learn what he is interested in rather than me encouraging him into a subject because I feel the gender balance is wrong. Whether he wants to build rockets, paint toe nails, build houses or care for young children, I don't care, I want him to be happy (and financially independent).
It's important that all parents focus on equality. Don't drag boys down to boost girls up.

As someone said upthread I think it can be quite intimidating involving yourself in feminist discussions if you are not used to it.
Sometimes it all feels very intellectualised, I'd feel way out of my depth.

I care about feminism. I just don’t want to discuss it on social media / forums (oh the irony of me posting here!) It doesn’t mean I don’t care about it or am not I interested in it because I don’t want to discuss it. Discussing things on a Facebook page etc doesn’t actually change anything. So I just think there is no point. I still encourage my dd to aim high - etc etc as I do my ds. Both my dc have been raised to believe they can do anything. I don’t need to vocalise my feminist views in order to have them.

I can’t find a link now but I read an article a couple of months ago that essentially said the whole ‘get more girls into STEM’ thing is misdirection because actually there are plenty of girls doing STEM subjects at school and undergrad. The problem is that (as with many other fields of work) the further up you go, the more women drop out or hit a ceiling where they can’t progress any further because of unconscious biases and systems that are inherently designed to benefit men. So there are slightly fewer women doing postgrad, even fewer doing PhD, and hardly any among the top ranks at STEM organisations. It’s basically a pyramid with loads of women at the bottom and hardly any at the top.

But that’s much harder to face up to, let alone begin to tackle, so it’s much easier just to say ‘let’s get more girls excited about science at school!’ than try to undo thousands of years of entrenched structural inequality.

Op if you post the same question on mumsnet, you’ll probably get some helpful responses.

Nothing gets my back up more than the accusation that some women don't do feminism right.

Agreed

I work in an area related to stem engagement and I still couldn’t answer the OPs post off the top of my head. I would however chat forever about gender neutral toys for the under 8s or about avoiding lazy gender assumptions in preschool or many of the other more concrete ways I interact with gender stereotypes in parenting.

For what it’s worth the science Easter holiday activities for 5-10yr olds I was at last week were most certainly even boy/girl.

Op if you post the same question on mumsnet, you’ll probably get some helpful responses.

Yes - try that question here. You'll find many mothers who care about feminism, and also many who understand the issues around STEM.

Inequalities in opportunity can start when they're tiny. Some girls still don't get bought the same range of stem-related toys as boys, and/or aren't encouraged as much in those areas. My DD was saying when she was 3 that she wanted to be 'a builder' (ie someone who makes things, bridges, rockets more than brickie). Aged 6, her teacher told her 'girls can't be builders'. Fortunately DD was outraged rather than daunted. She's at uni doing an engineering degree now, and loving it.

No one (family, teachers, tv programmes, characters in the books she reads etc) has ever told her she can't do something 'because she is a girl'.

This. My daughter can be whoever she wants to be.

Nothing gets my back up more than the accusation that some women don't do feminism right.

Absolutely!

I’m regularly disappointed by the attitude of women to their daughters.

I'm regularly disppointed by the attitude of women to other women.

Love that video Tunnocks . Made my eyes wet a little!

OP I get where you're coming from and agree with other posters that when kids are little other things are more pressing.

After a lifetime of living in a bubble I woke up to why we still need feminism about 2/3 years ago (DD now 11). Agree there is so much still to be done to not just boost our daughters up but make sure our boys grow up with safe, positive messages too.

I just try and do every (even if it's little) bit I can.

And don't be put off the FWR board there are some excellent posters there full of knowledge and resources. It's a very welcoming place

Nothing gets my back up more than the accusation that some women don't do feminism right.

// this is also v true!

I don't think choosing women in STEM was the best choice of topic as many people still believe university is not a realistic option. I don't think many people are truly against feminism and most want the best for their children but when people do not understand a point of view and get attacked (see every gender/sex scan thread for a debate) it gets people's backs up and that shuts down the conversation. If people want to talk feminism by all means be passionate but don't push ideas on to others (not saying you did but I have seen a lot of it on here!) I think an honest, thoughtful and considerate debate listening to others will get more women on board then leeching them for using the wrong language. I understand it upsets a lot of women when the wrong language is used and I completely understand why but everyone needs a reminder that at some point one word was acceptable and now it is another. The world is changing but not everyone keeps up with the speed and your left feeling stupid when someone belittles you. I feel the exact same way about other religious and moral issues. I will 1000% engage provided I'm not belittled and talked to like a moron. You see it time and again with politics