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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to ask whether there are things you feel MN won't allow to be discussed?

160 replies

AndIWon · 14/04/2019 19:58

I feel there is a lot of agenda here and whilst I can play along with the mods, sometimes I wonder what that agenda is?

OP posts:
Amongstthetallgrass · 14/04/2019 23:40

It’s not though spring you cannot say not say that the parents (hopefully better worded so it doesn’t get deleted) were complicit.

That in it self needs discussing. You are not allowed to air your views on it unless you are pro parents. That is sensorship. Look at my deleted post above.

Fjfs · 14/04/2019 23:47

What did the PBP do to get banned? Swan into MNHQ butt naked or something?

amandacarnet · 14/04/2019 23:49

So OP you are complaining amongst other things, b3cause you can not say racist th8ngs on MN?

ilovesooty · 14/04/2019 23:56

@standardaccount what are your opinions that offend people that you're being prevented from expressing?

JanMeyer · 15/04/2019 00:03

Fjfs - They started a thread earlier today, at first pretending to want to discuss what causes autism, then they quickly changed tack to telling autistic people that we shouldn't "procreate", lest we pass on our "genetic illness."
That thread was deleted, and they were banned. They then created this thread to complain about the fact they were prevented from discussing their eugenicist views.

amandacarnet · 15/04/2019 00:03

I know other countries with great health systems like France do diagnose far less children with autism than we do. Their approach from what I have read is to use resources to work out if there are other issues causing the symptoms being displayed, before diagnosing autism. I don't know enough about it to judge it. But it does raise the question of whether in Britain we over diagnose autism as we don't spend money looking at possible other causes?

amandacarnet · 15/04/2019 00:07

Jan I did not see that. That is disgusting. So they simply want to whip up anti disabling hate.

JanMeyer · 15/04/2019 00:15

amandacarnet - Yeah, look up France and how they treat autistic children, they blame parents and adhere to the old debunked ideas that our mothers can cause autism by not "loving us enough."
The resources you speak of consist of using psychoanalysis, putting kids in psychiatric hospitals. Does that sound like a good thing to you?
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/france-is-50-years-behind-the-state-scandal-of-french-autism-treatment
theconversation.com/frances-autism-problem-and-its-roots-in-psychoanalysis-94210

A quote from that second link:
"France has a problem with autism. The country’s highest administrative court estimates that there are 700,000 autistic people in France. However, only 75,000 are diagnosed. Autistic children have historically been diagnosed later in France than in neighbouring countries. They have often been excluded from mainstream education and lacked access to support services and extracurricular activities.

Many French autists are confined to day hospitals and live-in institutions, isolated from the community and frequently unable to communicate through speech – whereas in the US, for example, public schools are required by law to fully include autistic children in mainstream classroom education. For years, families in northeast France have taken autistic children to Belgium, to access its superior services."

If you don't know enough about it to judge, then maybe you should do some research before saying things like "we over diagnose autism in the UK."
And yes, the poster simply wanted to indulge in a little hate speech, they didn't want to discuss anything, hence why the thread was deleted.

SubisYodrethwhenLarping · 15/04/2019 00:16

a certain person who thought they knew best about caring for a baby

SWSNBN iirc (something like that)

amandacarnet · 15/04/2019 00:20

I had no idea that France still followed the old idea that autism was caused b6 mothers not loving their children enough, obviously bullshit. I said it raised the question of whether we over diagnosed here, I did not say that we did.

GirlRaisedInTheSouth · 15/04/2019 00:33

We are not allowed to criticise Lily Allen? Why not? Not that I want to, just curious.

JanMeyer · 15/04/2019 00:36

And as for looking at other causes, in France (as it sometimes does here) that translates into "so, how can we blame the mother for this?"
Did you know mothers of autistic children who are autistic themselves are often accused of having a "lack of affect" and of lacking a "proper bond with their child?" And sometimes are outright accused of making up their child's issues, because an autistic parent will naturally know a lot about autism, something professionals interpret as an obsession with the subject and wanting the child to have it.
You know why that is? Because the so called professionals who are supposed to be experts in autism can't recognise those traits in women.

Like this scenario from the guardian article I linked to:
"A consultant psychiatrist said Rachel was fabricating her children’s symptoms for attention, that they were not autistic, and that she wanted them to have autism spectrum disorder in order to make herself look more interesting.

Rachel’s children were taken and placed in care homes.

The children were subsequently diagnosed with autism and other issues, proving Rachel right. But despite a high-profile court battle in which parents’ groups denounced the “prehistoric vision of autism in France”, Rachel, who herself has Asperger syndrome, has still not won back custody of her children two years later. They remain in care with limited visiting rights. Local authorities insist the decision was correct. "

And for what it's worth, no I don't think autism is over diagnosed in this country. Given how difficult it can be just to get a child assessed, the stereotypes and myths that still remain entrenched amongst medical professionals and the long wait to get a diagnosis - I really don't see how it could be an issue. I think there's a huge problem with girls going undiagnosed, and academically able kids with autism getting left to flounder because some professionals seem to think as long as they are "ok in school" (And by ok I mean they aren't misbehaving) that they don't need a diagnosis. It's really common for kids like that to fall apart in secondary school and their parents are left scrambling trying to pick up the pieces in time for their GCSEs, which is unlikely given that in most places the list for assessment can run anywhere between one and three years.

I do however find it amusing (and frustrating) that you used France as an example of a country that diagnoses less kids with autism, whilst you a) had no clue why that was, b) had no idea that France still relies on such outdated views as blaming the mother, and then c) went on to say "maybe that raises the question of whether or not we over diagnose autism in the UK."
The only question France's autism practices raise is "how can a country that's a member of the EU and a signatory of the human rights convention be allowed to get away with treating disabled people in such a disgusting manner and depriving them of their rights."

amandacarnet · 15/04/2019 00:39

Of course it does not translate into how can we blame the mother. I am well aware that other things such as hearing problems in very young children, can look like autism.

Amongstthetallgrass · 15/04/2019 00:42

So OP you are complaining amongst other things, b3cause you can not say racist th8ngs on MN?

There were other t

Amongstthetallgrass · 15/04/2019 00:51

Clearly posted too early..

Op did not post anything racist - yet it was implied. I think her point was proven.

JanMeyer · 15/04/2019 01:06

I know how the diagnostic proccess works, standard part of the assessment process for a young child before they assess for autism or any developmental problems is usually a hearing test, to rule out hearing impairment. Because as you've pointed out, at that age a hearing impairment can look like autism.
But you suggested that "perhaps autism is over diagnosed becasue the UK doesn't spend enough money looking at other causes."
So what, are you suggesting that somehow there's a hoard of deaf children who were wrongly diagnosed as autistic?
Or do you think professionals in this country just jump straight to autism and don't bother considering other options?

Your comparison is completely flawed anyway, because you're comparing the UK's rates of diagnosis to a country that might as well be stuck in the dark ages when it comes to autism. Given that you knew so little about autism in France, why did you pluck that out in particular to use as an example?

You know South Korea is another country that used to have lower rates of autism diagnoses compared to other countries. Not because autism is less prevalent there though. It's because professionals and parents in the past preferred to diagnose it as attachment disorder instead. Because attachment disorder isn't genetic, and it won't ruin the other siblings chance at finding a good partner. My point is, statistics don't tell the whole story. You need to know why a country has less numbers of people diagnosed with autism before you go comparing countries.

And the other favourite method of professionals, the wait and see approach. As in some doctors won't agree to an autism diagnosis before a certain age, because some children can change hugely between two, three and four. Though I feel the need to point out that all the parents I know who have been told that were all later proved right and their child was diagnosed with, you've guessed it, autism.

Amongstthetallgrass - What do you mean her point was proven? And no, they didn't post anything racist, they didn't get around to that before they were banned. They settled for making disabilist comments instead.

managedmis · 15/04/2019 01:17

MN does very well out of selling us, which is fair game, but to users the value of the site exists only in subjects with knowledgeable posters and topics that mods can cope with.

^^
Interesting point.

Fjfs · 15/04/2019 01:20

Implied racism? Sorry I missed all this.

Twotabbycats · 15/04/2019 01:49

My BFF is Irish and I don't feel sorry for her at all. We live in a mainland EU country and when/if Brexit happens, DH and I will have a shitload of expensive bureaucracy to deal with in order to stay in the country where we have lived for 15 years (we are English), while Irish BFF and her Irish DH will be able to continue their lives as before. Why would I feel sorry for her? Slightly jealous - maybe!

Another Irish friend thinks the DUP are batshit.

MitziTheTabbyIsMyOverlord · 15/04/2019 02:02

I'm not being goady, but I have to genuinely ask...

I see threads about Meghan all the time, and I never click on them because I'm really not very interested in the royal family.
But why was the OP saying this? Are people anti-Meghan because her mum is not as German as the rest of the royal family? i mean... I don't get it. Properly don't.
The Royals are as mixed as the rest of us. What's the issue?

PregnantSea · 15/04/2019 02:05

I agree that Mumsnet is very bias and seems afraid of anyone having opinions that go against the super PC zeitgeist, but that's just how it is. Mumsnet isn't 4chan, it isn't Reddit. It was created so that mum's have a place to ask the masses about baby problems and seek advice if they are being abused, that sort of thing. I know it has changed in nature over time and become more of a universal forum, but i still think it wants to conduct itself with a little decorum and is very keen on not offending people as it may alienate a big part of it's user base.

I could be wrong but this is how I see it.

TheTrollFairy · 15/04/2019 06:44

The ‘banned’ topics (Madeline/Megan) will be for legal reasons. The banned topics aren’t something that I usually discuss on MN anyway so I’m not worried that we can’t discuss them

Sparklingbrook · 15/04/2019 07:37

Let's not forget that threads only get moderated if they are reported.

Ghanagirl · 15/04/2019 07:51

@Amongstthetallgrass
How exactly was her point proven?
I really don’t understand the mindset of some posters if you want to post racist stuff there are a number rightwing sites join those.
Healthy debate fine, hate speech not.
It’s quite simple although I’m sure some “I’m not racist but” poster will disagree.

Acis · 15/04/2019 08:24

If they decided to ban all users who used the word moist they could

Ooh, what a good idea.