To think you shouldn't ask a vegan to buy you meat/animal products?

[Ragnasath]

A younger relative told me yesterday in casual conversation about how her housemate at university often asks her to pick up meat or animal products from the supermarket for her.

There's a few of them living together and all buy their own food but will all take turns buying loo roll, fairy liquid etc that are communal. My relative said that often when it is her turn to go and get these things, a particular housemate will often say 'can you pick me up some ham slices/ Cadbury chocolate' etc whilst you're there. This relative is a passionate vegan and feels very strongly against animal cruelty etc and has been vegan for 5 years as a result. She said that she'll usually say no to the friend because she doesn't want anything to do with the purchase of animal products but will offer her a vegan alternative (i.e I don't feel comfortable buying you cadburys but am happy to get you oreos or bourbons instead etc). Apparently the housemate often gets annoyed at this response and will roll her eyes about how she's being ridiculous because housemate offers to give relative the money to buy the items so it's not coming out of relative's pocket. Relative still says she wants nothing to do with the purchase of animals or animal products.

The relative says she never asks her friend to pick her up any snacks or food because she doesn't want to feel like she has to reciprocate by buying her housemate food which goes against her values.

I think it's pretty awful of the housemate to put her in that position tbh. You wouldn't ask a committed Muslim to pick you up a bottle of wine would you and I don't see much difference in this scenario

I agree with the principle of not buying/picking up things for people if they don’t buy/pick up things for you. For example I wouldn’t make a cup of tea for someone at work who didn’t reciprocate or who wasn’t in the tea club.

As there seems to be a fair few vegans and vegetarians on this thread I'd like to ask a genuine question; if the majority of people were to give up meat and meat products what future do you envisage for chickens, sheep, cows, pigs etc and the people who make their livings in the related industries?

I eat meat but I do get agitated by the anti-vegan/veggie vitriol on this site.

I suspect that a lot of meat eaters actually feel shitty about the way animals are treated but aren't willing to change their diets, so just ridicule vegans as a way of dealing with their own lack of moral conviction.

I don't think it's awful to ask a vegan to pick up some animals products from the shops, but they are perfectly entitled to say 'no' and that should be the end of the matter.

@Justkeep the population giving up meat is and will continue to be gradual. Farmers can and should reduce the amount of animals they breed and slowly transition towards crop farming. The reason we have so many farm animals at the moment is because they are hugely overbred for the meat and animal products industry. Stop overbreeding them and the amount of farm animals will gradually decline over time.

Farmers can and should reduce the amount of animals they breed and slowly transition towards crop farming. The reason we have so many farm animals at the moment is because they are hugely overbred for the meat and animal products industry. Stop overbreeding them and the amount of farm animals will gradually decline over time

You seem to be assuming that arable farming is a viable option for all farmers. It isn't. For example, I keep sheep. I would rather not, but I am legally bound to work the land, so sheep it is. The way I keep them means that the land supports several rare species of birds, as well as various wildflowers and beetles. If it were possible to grow arable crops on my land, the ecosystem would be changed. It actually isn't possible though. because the land is too rocky, the soil is too poor and the weather is generally speaking too harsh (also a good half of is it underwater for a fair part of any given day). "Improving" the soil would kill the orchids, ploughing would scare off the corncrakes and so on. So it's slightly facile to say that farmer should just move onto an arable system of farming, when in many cases this is neither possible nor desirable.

You cant grow veg on the hills where sheep graze its unsuitable for that purpose 🤷‍♀️

I would imagine that there was an implicit "where possible" in that sentence. What would happen is what happens when any industry becomes outdated and falls out of favour. And given the hatred for vegans and vegetarians that is often evident on these threads, it isn't going to happen any time soon.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that everybody should become vegetarian/vegan. But reducing the consumption of meat would mean that we could improve animal welfare. Sheep farming is pretty high welfare and sustainable compared to most other meat production anyway.

And your making a massive assumption here that we will be able to grow enough food to feed a growing population during climate change which has been known to wipe out crops and I dont even know why I was going to bother explaining the omnivore diet is best suited for the continuation of the species because it will fall on deaf ears so as you were I'm out

Ps I was a vegetarian chef I cooked meat for a living

(A vegetarian diet is omnivorous...)

It is bizarre how rude meat eaters are while they are telling vegetarians and vegans how judgemental and rude they are.........!

FYI offering ‘alternatives’ isn’t the same unless she’s going to check they contain the all the essential amino acids the housemate would be getting from her meat products) FWIW I think attempting to deprive housemate of nutrition is more unethical than buying meat products.

Wtaf?

Flatmate shouldnt be expecting someone else to do thier damm shopping for them on a regular basis and be responsible for thier own nutrition.
If ops relative offers alternatives you do understand that the flatmate isnt legally bound to.accept them and can just say "no thanks don't bother"?
If they are that desperate they can get thier own meat!

I don’t buy Nestle products. If someone asked me for some Dairy Milk I’d just say “Sorry - I don’t buy Nestle, can I get you a different brand?”

On what planet could that possibly be a problem?

Is Dairy Milk a Nestle product? Genuine question.

Dunno. Random example of chocolate. I don”t like chocolate. Hang on.....

Strike Dairy Milk. Insert Yorkie.

Which sounds rude. But not as rude as insert Toblerone. I think I have lost my mind.

Good. You had me worried there. I'd just bought Cadburys Easter eggs for my cousin's children and she boycotts Nestle so I thought I was going to have to run out and get alternatives.

@AssassinatedBeauty No it isn't

omnivorous
/ɒmˈnɪv(ə)rəs/


adjective
1 1. 
(of an animal or person) feeding on a variety of food of both plant and animal origin.
2 synonyms:
3 eating a mixed/varied diet, able to eat anything, all-devouring





it's slightly facile to say that farmer should just move onto an arable system of farming, when in many cases this is neither possible nor desirable.

Not to mention the supposed environmental benefits we would all see if the world stopped farming animals entirely and all farm land was used for arable.

I mean let's just pretend that cows farting is worse than creating dustbowls.

Vegetarians eat eggs and milk products which are of animal origin.

I do hope people have noticed that the only rudeness or judgement on this thread has come from meat eaters!

I've noticed. It's always the case in these discussions that the aggressive remarks come from carnivores.

It is bizarre how rude meat eaters are while they are telling vegetarians and vegans how judgemental and rude they are.........!

Amen to that. I stopped eating meat other than fish when I was 13 because I wanted to do what I could to improve animal welfare. I was aware that I was compromising because I still used animal products. This was back in the 1980s and since then animal welfare of farmed animals has improved greatly. There's far more knowledge amongst the general population about the conditions under which they are kept. Consumers have more choice now about what type of meat to buy. Whilst not hens are being kept in ideal conditions they are at least free of battery conditions.

I very much doubt that these changes would have been made if some people hadn't said "this is wrong, and whilst you continue to keep animals like this I will not consume them, or products that come from them". If this rattles you, puts you on the defensive, and makes you get the hump with vegetarians and vegans, perhaps have a think about why.

NAMEALT

If your vegan friend has clearly explained that she personally doesn't want anything to do with the purchase of animal products, then the issue is not a vegan one, it is an issue of rudeness and disrespect by the other flatmate deliberately choosing not to respect someone else's boundaries.