To sell up and move to Spain ?

[MijasMaddie]

Hi MN’s!

I’ve nc! So in a nutshell.. I’ve got two DC (sons) 8yrs and 10yrs. DH is 13 years older than me. (I’m mid thirties he’s late 40s)

He works in financial sales and I’m a small business owner (pet care/boarding).

We have a home in a lovely place on the outskirts of London. BUT we are struggling to live!

My DH has unfortunately been out of work/made redundant SO many times! We’ve been together 13 years and it seems every 2/3 years he is out of work.

A couple of years ago he had to ‘leave’ instead of being pushed and was out of work nearly a whole year! This has put us in such a bad financial situation.

We now pay the mortgage and the bills but we have hardly anything to live on. The mortgage and outgoings are huge.

Credit cards maxed out. I’m in touch with debt companies etc only so much can be done!

Life is a hamster wheel and borrowing from Peter to pay Paul etc..

AIBU to sell up and move to Spain? We attended Spanish lessons (myself, DH, DC) but stopped a couple of years ago! So we are no way fluent!

I have no money nor does DH but we have money in our home. After selling our home we could have enough to buy a three bed apartment in Southern Spain (ideally Calahonda area).

DH is saying he’ll have to stay here and rent a room outskirts of London to work his job in the city etc.

I could get rid of my debts and this misarable life but I will also have burnt all bridges to ever be able to come back.

My youngest is 8 and a young sweet 8. He’d be happy and make friends anywhere. But my eldest is 10 going on Kevin the Teenager! I’d have to put them through Spanish state school (also thinking of doing Cambridge p/t home school modules) if he hated it then he’ll hate me!!

Pros - I’d have the debts and financial burdens weighing me down gone. I’d be living in a sunny climate.
I am qualified in beauty industry, massage, animal pet training care..

Cons- what if it all goes wrong?

I’ve wanted to move to Southern Spain since 2013. I love it there. I fully appreciate living there is different to a holiday.

Only other option is to sell this house and rent there for a year (?)

Are kids that are about to turn 9 and 11 too old to be put in a Spanish state school?

I cannot go on like this 😑 too over drawn too broke. Don’t know how I’ll afford food for this week!

The thought of selling up and being able to buy a spacious penthouse in Spain has never been so tempting.

Ps. I have experience in beauty, make up, massage in case you wondered what I’d do over there. Also a very experienced animal carer.

• also Brexit is a factor but as it stands I know I can still go there ...

Please give me some advice (shake some sense into me!) thank you! X

You can't stay longer than 3 months if not resident

This is what I don’t understand. As a member of the EU wasn’t it sold to us on the fact we could move anywhere in the EU for work or to live yet what has been described on this thread isnt what most people think Freedom of Movement means

The UK seems to be able to take anyone from the EU and they come here to live and work without residency issues yet as a member of the EU other countries don’t reciprocate.

Also the way that it is described that really no one, unless they are single and have huge money behind them and speak the language fluently is able to do the move anyway.

I think if we had another referendum I think I would seriously consider voting leave.

That for a lot of people Freedom of Movement was the one thing they liked that they or their children could go and work abroad without visas or any hassle.

If what this thread is saying is correct then for a lot of the people I know who voted Remain they too would change their vote if there is another referendum.

What will the difference be between having to jump through hoops to live in for example Spain for longer than 3 months and doing the same thing when we leave.

Free of movement basically means freedom to live and work in another country. All EU countries are allowed to apply the 3 month rule. Britian chose not to. They could have if they'd wanted to but they didn't. Britain made a choice not to track who comes in and out and properly enforce the rules available to them. That's not the EU's fault.

But the biggest deception is this: we could easily have taken back control of our borders already under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC, which allows EU member states to repatriate EU nationals after three months if they have not found a job or do not have the means to support themselves.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit

Another example of the problems Britain faces having bugger all to do with membership of the EU.

Also the way that it is described that really no one, unless they are single and have huge money behind them and speak the language fluently is able to do the move anyway. You don't need huge amounts of money. You DO need an income, either a job or (I think, based on a link earlier) €800 a month in rivate income. Anyone thinking they can go to a foreign country and integrate properly without speaking the language is a bit mad, surely? I mean, anywhere, you need at least intermediate language skills to be able to get by, are people surprised by that?

That for a lot of people Freedom of Movement was the one thing they liked that they or their children could go and work abroad without visas or any hassle. FOM means you don't need a visa, it's never meant you could just rock up somewhere with no plans to support yourself. Emigrating has never been something that has involved "no hassle".

If what this thread is saying is correct then for a lot of the people I know who voted Remain they too would change their vote if there is another referendum. That doesn't even make any sense? If you think moving to an EU country is ahrd now, wait until the UK isn't a member, it, by definition, will be more complex post brexit.

What will the difference be between having to jump through hoops to live in for example Spain for longer than 3 months and doing the same thing when we leave. Because an EU member you have the right to live and work in the EU if you can prove you can support yourself. Show you have a job or enough to suport yourself and you can become a resident. It is much much more complex for Americans for instance. That's one of the reasons most TEFL teachers in Spain are from the UK and Ireland, not the states as it's soooo much more complex for them to get the right to work in Spain.

macaco

So what I was saying is correct. The UK has taken FOM to mean just that and for a lot of people it was sold as the same rules applying wherever in the EU you went. But other countries don’t really have true FOM.

Also posters on this thread come up with a huge amount of reasons why moving is too hard. Income, the age of the children, the language barrier etc.

Apparently one lot of posters say being 8 years old is too old for the Spanish schools whilst others say wait and take them when they are in university.

You can’t go to Spain because you are not fluent in the language but you can’t become fluent till you live there.
I don’t think anyone becomes fluent in a language unless they have lived in the country.

FWIW I posted a while ago about moving abroad to an English speaking country. I could get the visas and Dp could work there

Every single poster said it was too hard and I should move to Spain despite me not speaking a word of Spanish (apparently I would pick it up) and I wouldn’t be able to work in Spain as I didn’t speak Spanish. (If it is too hard to apply for residency then I certainly wouldn’t have been able to fight through the red tape in a foreign language)

Funny how you now have a poster who speaks a bit of Spanish, can work in Spain and wants to go and live there and is being told it is too hard.

It's not the UK being more generous and the howibble Europeans being unfair. The rules are there to ensure people exercise their right to work in another member state. The UK didn't bother to enforce the rules, that doesn't make other countries enforcing them unfair. I fyou think the UK should enforce the same rules as other member states, that's a question for the UK government, you don't need to leave the EU to change that, it has ALWAYS been in the Uk's power to do it.

a lot of people it was sold as the same rules applying wherever in the EU you went. well, that's them not informing themselves roperly, isn't it? lenty of people DO know.

But other countries don’t really have true FOM. Yes they do. "The freedom of movement for workers is a policy chapter of the acquis communautaire of the European Union. It is part of the free movement of persons and one of the four economic freedoms: free movement of goods, services, labour and capital." It's the freedom to work in other EU countries. You can study and retire too, but basically it's the right to live in another EU country if you can support yourself.

a lot of people it was sold as the same rules applying wherever in the EU you went the same rules DO apply across Europe: the right to work and/or reside (while suporting yourself in some way) in another member state.

OP this is a pipe dream and a pretty selfish one at that. Your real problem here is that you aren't bringing in enough to cover your outgoings. If you sell up and release your equity you will burn through it and be no better off unless you solve that basic problem.

You say your DH is unable to hold on to a job - how will you & the DC pissing off to Spain solve that? Even a rented room in a shared house in London is expensive, and it would be a pretty miserable existence for him. Odds are he would lose another job and then be unable to send you and the DC money leaving you broke in a foreign country.

Your current pet care job sounds like a lifestyle choice you can't afford. Look into selling up and moving to a cheaper area in the UK and then look at getting a job yourself so you can contribute more to the household.

oliversmumsarmy just speaking from experience. Being moved from your peer group friends, not speaking the language and being taught in a totally different way just make it more difficult. I'm sure it works for some, it just wouldn't be the choice I'd make for my child.

@oliversmumsarmy I've done both; moved to a European non-English speaking country and moved to a non-EU English speaking country. Both were very hard.

FOM means that as long as you can support yourself, you have FOM so the actual immigration bit is easier. The bureaucracy in Southern European countries is tortuous. Speaking the language makes that slightly easier. Making local friends who will help is great, children help you make friends. But learning a different language and culture is hard and not like being on holiday at all.

Non-EU immigration took years, I was almost sent home, my emails, letters, life were examined by immigration. I had a medicals and interviews and tests and had to do a job I was massively overqualified for to stay. Even then it took an MP to pressure them to allow me to work. Completely different and also terrible.

People weren't 'sold' a lie about Europe. People chose to believe stupid, ugly papers that lied and played into their xenophobia. They could have read something different, traveled a bit more. They chose not to. The EU hasn't lied about FOM, it's the same rules for all. The country decides how to or whether to enforce the guidelines.

Op- my sister has just got her NIE. £30 and an early appointment at the police station (On Costa Del Sol not far from where you’ve mentioned). Only 24 hours turn around and she got her NIE! She hasn’t got a job (yet!) snd only rents. (Followed her boyfriend)
Can’t really give advice but thought I had to mention this! Life is funny as my little sis would LOVE to be able to afford a beautiful apartment like you can but at the same time she doesn’t have a nice house to give up and children to move to a non English speaking country!
Lastly if you DO go and you have an EU passport then I’m sure it could work as my LS says it’s easy and not as hard as lots make it out to be. Good luck 😉

A NIE is your fiscal ID. It doesn't mean you can stay longer than 3months. For that you need to apply for residency, and for that you need an income. A NIE is just the.first stage. If you don't have a job or a private income you'll have to leave after 3 months

I've lived in Spain for 12 years and my 3 children were born here. I feel compelled to post in order to point out a few misconceptions. All this talk of family time, being able to eating out until all hours with children. Yes, it's perfectly normal but so is having the children sat there glued to phones/ipads while their parents merrily eat and drink into the small hours. Of course kids here also play on PS4s and Fortnite as mentioned up thread. Summer is hideously hot and believe me when I say you cannot do anything during the central hours of the day, air con or no air con, so youngsters here are stuck indoors on devices for different reasons. It's ironic really. Not everyone has a pool or lives by the coast. Work life balance is horrendous in Spain. Kids are often in school until 5 and 6pm. In Winter the parks are empty because it's just that...Winter...and that means you stay indoors. Spain has its advantages but so does England. Ups and downs are everywhere and the grass really isn't greener.

The “four freedoms” of the EU Single Market are the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour. They are essential for frictionless free trade with minimal bureaucracy. The last is what is generally referred to as “freedom of movement”. As pp have said, it’s the right to live and work (or to be self supporting) within the EU.
Most EU countries apply the perfectly sensible rules to discourage freeloaders. We didn’t choose to, possibly because despite having far more control of our borders (ironically) than other countries (e.g. those in the Schengen area), we don’t have reliable systems for registering and tracking immigrant workers or speedily deporting them if they don’t have legitimate work
All of which are the fault of successive UK governments, not the EU.

@Extrapineappleextraham

Studied Spanish so I could move to Spain and teach English. Thought I would be a natural as I had an English literature degree.

yeah - people who don't do a proper TEFL teaching course often think that. There is a reason that the most "in demand" TEFL qualification (CELTA) is so difficult: teaching isn't easy.

We own a holiday apartment in the costa del sol (here now, weathers getting better). We both have a NIE. But we can’t stay here for more than 3 months at a time. We knew the rules and signed up for it

We took Spanish lessons before we came out. Practice, practice, practice. The amount of people who come out and don’t/won’t speak Spanish astounds me

I live in Spain, in fact 2 mins from calahonda. I think that you are missing a ton of living here points. Autonomo stamp alone is almost 400 a month