To sell up and move to Spain ?

[MijasMaddie]

Hi MN’s!

I’ve nc! So in a nutshell.. I’ve got two DC (sons) 8yrs and 10yrs. DH is 13 years older than me. (I’m mid thirties he’s late 40s)

He works in financial sales and I’m a small business owner (pet care/boarding).

We have a home in a lovely place on the outskirts of London. BUT we are struggling to live!

My DH has unfortunately been out of work/made redundant SO many times! We’ve been together 13 years and it seems every 2/3 years he is out of work.

A couple of years ago he had to ‘leave’ instead of being pushed and was out of work nearly a whole year! This has put us in such a bad financial situation.

We now pay the mortgage and the bills but we have hardly anything to live on. The mortgage and outgoings are huge.

Credit cards maxed out. I’m in touch with debt companies etc only so much can be done!

Life is a hamster wheel and borrowing from Peter to pay Paul etc..

AIBU to sell up and move to Spain? We attended Spanish lessons (myself, DH, DC) but stopped a couple of years ago! So we are no way fluent!

I have no money nor does DH but we have money in our home. After selling our home we could have enough to buy a three bed apartment in Southern Spain (ideally Calahonda area).

DH is saying he’ll have to stay here and rent a room outskirts of London to work his job in the city etc.

I could get rid of my debts and this misarable life but I will also have burnt all bridges to ever be able to come back.

My youngest is 8 and a young sweet 8. He’d be happy and make friends anywhere. But my eldest is 10 going on Kevin the Teenager! I’d have to put them through Spanish state school (also thinking of doing Cambridge p/t home school modules) if he hated it then he’ll hate me!!

Pros - I’d have the debts and financial burdens weighing me down gone. I’d be living in a sunny climate.
I am qualified in beauty industry, massage, animal pet training care..

Cons- what if it all goes wrong?

I’ve wanted to move to Southern Spain since 2013. I love it there. I fully appreciate living there is different to a holiday.

Only other option is to sell this house and rent there for a year (?)

Are kids that are about to turn 9 and 11 too old to be put in a Spanish state school?

I cannot go on like this 😑 too over drawn too broke. Don’t know how I’ll afford food for this week!

The thought of selling up and being able to buy a spacious penthouse in Spain has never been so tempting.

Ps. I have experience in beauty, make up, massage in case you wondered what I’d do over there. Also a very experienced animal carer.

• also Brexit is a factor but as it stands I know I can still go there ...

Please give me some advice (shake some sense into me!) thank you! X

Have RTFT.. and the answer to the OP's headline question is YABU.

Not quite sure why golondrina's posts have been described as "joyless" when they are just offering very sensible advice and setting out the realities of the situation for OP to consider. I mean, the question wasn't exactly "AIBU to indulge, purely theoretically on Mumsnet, in the escapist fantasy of moving to Spain to get away from my debts?"

*'SO many people I know and know of live in sunny Spain and I'm in the midst of if they can do it so can I'
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OP then shouldn't these be the people you contact for advice, rather than randoms on Mumsnet!

The OP has had pages of advice, much of it very informed from people with first hand experience.
Alas unless they are happy to tell her to follow her dreams and right now, they are “joyless” and smug.
I think that accounts for some exasperation creeping through.
I don’t see that Golondrina was anything but helpful. She said how she did it (pages back, not her recent reminder) and clarified the position re qualifying for Residence.
It’s the same or similar here in Portugal. If you are not employed here, you have to demonstrate that you have means to support yourself and you do not get the same access to free healthcare as a Portuguese citizen does. I went through the process in February.
We don’t have jobs in Portugal so we had to take recent bank statements showing substantial assets. These were specifically asked for at the Câmara, taken away, photocopied and returned. In our case at least, it wasn’t just lip service, they wanted proof.
How is glossing over issues like that helpful to a real woman with real children, who is already broke and contemplating selling her only significant asset and ploughing it into another, illiquid, single asset in a different currency and economy? Moving to another country with no job there on the horizon for her or her partner?
Most people aren’t saying she is wrong to dream, or even plan on moving abroad, most people are saying that she needs to get herself in a better position in the U.K. to de-risk that move and make it feasible.

If just outside London is too expensive, why not move up north instead. Much cheaper up there. Less of an uphevial too.

BunsyGirl dds school was an amazing school and she had such a blast there and she learned so much and made many friends but if you are looking at A levels and a degree then this school wouldn’t cross your radar

What I don’t understand as a member of the EU, (last time I checked we are still a member) and we have been a member for quite some time as has Spain and Portugal etc.
Why the need for us to produce bank statements and get jobs and all this palace when we have a host of migrants from Eu countries sleeping under Marble Arch.

Why do we need to produce all this stuff when it doesn’t appear to work the other way round.

It sounds like my dream. I am sure you can run your business over there. I have two friend who upped sticks and left, neither regret it.
The schools start early, they have summer school too, As it is when it is needed most, other than having family local they are both happy.
The only thing is neither could afford to live in Ireland again, it is something to consider. Would you buy somewhere cheaper in the UK, you can always rent it out and use to money to rent in spain, you can always sell here.

Your reaction to the idea of living elsewhere in the U.K.is very telling. You sound depressed and desperate for a way out, but the reality of that - a mortgage-free life up north with dh commuting or not - still fills you with depression whereas the fantasy of moving the Spain, with all the very real practical problems people have detailed, feels like the only solution. Your problems no doubt originate in the childhood you allude to and are exacerbated by the debt and instability with DH. These are huge and difficult and I completely understand the appeal of a magic fix and running away. But at some point you have to come back to reality, and it will be easier now than down the line if you've given up what stability you have. Consider in dept why the UK move plan fills you with such dread rather than dismissing it. Start to get to the heart of what is really casting the cloud rather than running away. It's the only real to fix this.

What I don’t understand as a member of the EU, (last time I checked we are still a member) and we have been a member for quite some time as has Spain and Portugal etc.
Why the need for us to produce bank statements and get jobs and all this palace when we have a host of migrants from Eu countries sleeping under Marble Arch.

That is because individual countries within the EU CAN control immigration, even that from within the EU, because there are rules.
As for the vagrants under Marble Arch, ask our Home Office.

Songs is correct. We have never applied the perfectly sensible rules as our immigration system has been dysfunctional for many years now despite having control of our borders in a way that most EU countries don’t. Hence the Windrush scandal and more recent difficulties EU citizens with many years of well documented work are having, as our systems can’t process it properly.

If we had the opportunity I’d be in Spain like a shot. If you can I definitely would.

Why would you and dh be actively seeking to split the family up and only see each other weekends?

The cost of weekly flights will really add up and the travel time will mean he is exhausted and you will have a day and a half to see each other each week and the children wouldn't get much quality time with their Dad at all.

@pelirocco123

I think the way the OP and CoisNaFarraige have attacked golondrina has convinced me there is something odd about this thread ....

It's almost like OP and Cois are the same person ...

It would be my guess that because you will be down to one wage, the cost of travel plus room rent and the exhaustion of the commute will mean eventually dh will just come out every other weekend. Be very careful op.

I highly recommend Step Change and Business Debt Line for help with your debts. They are supportive and non judgemental. It’s very hard when couples have different views and feelings about money and debt.

I know my post probably sounded slightly negative, but in relation to my DD the move has been nothing but positive. She really has fully integrated. She loves school, is fluent in the language and has made many Spanish friends. Be prepared though, the first term was horrible and she was really unhappy. Now she never wants to move back to the UK. I have to stress that our situation is different in that my partner and his family are from the area. I do think it would have been much harder if this wasn't the case. You really need a for one of you to master the language before coming out when you have kids, to deal with stuff at school, speak to the teachers, be able to converse with other parents, help with homework etc or the transition will not be easy. This is why the majority of people choose international schools. Or choose an area which is very British, but again the problem there will be integration as your kids will likely play with other British kids, which isn't really the point of moving to another country and culture.

pinkdelight

I think this poster's advice is very reasoned and well-thought out fwiw.

Why not try a sideways move somewhere in the UK - at least at first? I suppose an analogy may be if you are qualified for a certain career and you don't like your first job, do you throw away the whole idea of working in that field or do you try a few different companies for a better fit first?

I know how you feel, OP. When I was younger I used to move every time life got difficult and it never solved anything. I know the feeling of escape and wanting sunshine and that sort of thing. It's understandable if life is so miserable now.

He works in financial sales and I’m a small business owner (pet care/boarding)

You could set up in another part of the UK with these jobs? There are much cheaper areas of the UK to live in. If you are prepared to go abroad, then you should not find it too adventurous to look at the UK as a whole before you make your decision.

Remember, that Spain need not be off the table forever, but I think it would be fantastic to stabilise here first, sell-up, get rid of your debts, get a cheaper home elsewhere in the UK, see how you feel then. If you still want to move in a few years, then you will be going on a firmer footing, maybe with a house you can rent out, no debts, all speaking Spanish fairly fluently and so on. Plus - Brexit may be resolved one way or the other - just maybe!

FYI the Spanish state system may not be to your liking. It's very different to the UK, or maybe similar to how the UK was years ago. It's very exam focused, children have regular exams from Year 1/2 and are expected to revise for these, it's course book teaching, if they don't pass enough subjects they get kept down a year and there's less focus on the arts. As they get to high school, the amount of work they need to do outside of school is quite stressful. If you don't think your kids will apart to this very book/exam based learning it's something to consider.

Sell up and move and have a five year or a ten year plan for Spain.

This 100 times over. We'd like to have a home in an expensive part of Spain at some point. But that point is likely at least 15 years away, and we both have skills that mean we can easily work remotely.

I'd really worry about my kids prospects in Spain. The unemployment rate is crazy high especially in the South.

Maybe he's a Beefeater 😂*
*
Sorry I know this is a serious thread but this really made me laugh!

OP I live in East Yorkshire, lovely countryside and direct train to London regularly, takes about 2 hours to Kings Cross. You could buy s 3 to 4 bed outright here for under 200 k. I second pp idea to make perhaps a 10 year plan so you don't have to completely forgot your Spanish dream!

You sound depressed and desperate for a way out, but the reality of that - a mortgage-free life up north with dh commuting or not - still fills you with depression whereas the fantasy of moving the Spain, with all the very real practical problems people have detailed, feels like the only solution

I would feel the same way. The only difference I can see between living in the north as opposed to going to Spain is it would cost more living in the North, because Dh would still have to live in London during the week and the return train fare back north would outstrip the air fare to Spain and back. Plus It is probably quicker getting to Spain than a lot of the north (used to do that commute regularly, never had a seat and in winter the toilets would freeze and the urine would slip over the top of the loo when the train jolted and you would be wading in wee for umpteen hours as something invariably had frozen or there were too many leaves on the line and the train would stop) wouldnt want to do that again. If you were in Spain it would be a different way of life. Not huddled in doors from 4pm from September to March

Even if you got on your feet up north there would be no going back to London.

The only negative would be the paperwork. But as op would have a lump sum she could rent first of all, get a job (even just as bar staff in an English Bar) And tick the boxes off to get going.

Who knew that freedom of movement was only a one way street.

I cannot see the point of having a 5 year plan as this is an imminent issue not something that can be planned for in 5 years. Moving up north is just going to add to the cost.

The children I know who did the move went to the local schools (friends who went to live in Germany and Spain) said the first term was the hardest as they got to grips with the language but they were the centre of attention with children trying out their English on them and they have fitted in and have friends and the ones who went to Spain don’t want to return

If there is no work in Spain or Germany when the time comes they have the choice of moving anywhere because they are already bilingual.

I don’t believe you can become fluent in any language until you live in the country and are surrounded by it.

For me I would jump at Spain i went last year and for me being able to walk without being in pain (arthritis) was worth every penny

Also In 5years the children will be that much older and entrenched in their friends and GCSEs and then they won’t want to go and op might not want to go without her children so she would be stuck up north and her dream in tatters.

The children will go away to uni and probably get jobs in London and she will be alone.