To sell up and move to Spain ?

[MijasMaddie]

Hi MN’s!

I’ve nc! So in a nutshell.. I’ve got two DC (sons) 8yrs and 10yrs. DH is 13 years older than me. (I’m mid thirties he’s late 40s)

He works in financial sales and I’m a small business owner (pet care/boarding).

We have a home in a lovely place on the outskirts of London. BUT we are struggling to live!

My DH has unfortunately been out of work/made redundant SO many times! We’ve been together 13 years and it seems every 2/3 years he is out of work.

A couple of years ago he had to ‘leave’ instead of being pushed and was out of work nearly a whole year! This has put us in such a bad financial situation.

We now pay the mortgage and the bills but we have hardly anything to live on. The mortgage and outgoings are huge.

Credit cards maxed out. I’m in touch with debt companies etc only so much can be done!

Life is a hamster wheel and borrowing from Peter to pay Paul etc..

AIBU to sell up and move to Spain? We attended Spanish lessons (myself, DH, DC) but stopped a couple of years ago! So we are no way fluent!

I have no money nor does DH but we have money in our home. After selling our home we could have enough to buy a three bed apartment in Southern Spain (ideally Calahonda area).

DH is saying he’ll have to stay here and rent a room outskirts of London to work his job in the city etc.

I could get rid of my debts and this misarable life but I will also have burnt all bridges to ever be able to come back.

My youngest is 8 and a young sweet 8. He’d be happy and make friends anywhere. But my eldest is 10 going on Kevin the Teenager! I’d have to put them through Spanish state school (also thinking of doing Cambridge p/t home school modules) if he hated it then he’ll hate me!!

Pros - I’d have the debts and financial burdens weighing me down gone. I’d be living in a sunny climate.
I am qualified in beauty industry, massage, animal pet training care..

Cons- what if it all goes wrong?

I’ve wanted to move to Southern Spain since 2013. I love it there. I fully appreciate living there is different to a holiday.

Only other option is to sell this house and rent there for a year (?)

Are kids that are about to turn 9 and 11 too old to be put in a Spanish state school?

I cannot go on like this 😑 too over drawn too broke. Don’t know how I’ll afford food for this week!

The thought of selling up and being able to buy a spacious penthouse in Spain has never been so tempting.

Ps. I have experience in beauty, make up, massage in case you wondered what I’d do over there. Also a very experienced animal carer.

• also Brexit is a factor but as it stands I know I can still go there ...

Please give me some advice (shake some sense into me!) thank you! X

I too think it sounds too risky. You are living in one of the most expensive places in the country. Sort that out first. Sell up and move and have a five year or a ten year plan for Spain. Moving now could have you from surviving to destitiute and no way back.
If you sell buy as small a place as you can manage in but somewhere where the house is likely to increase in value. Don't make the mistake of buying something huge out of vanity. Try to learn to manage money in a much better way over the five year plan and DH has to learn how to keep a job basically :/
The Spain idea has too much of a fantasy element to it. It will not solve your problems it will swap them for a whole new set and at least the problems you have right now you are aware of/familiar with.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do though.

I should have just over £200k .. will not have any money for international schools. and will have had to get rid of my business that I’ve built from scratch

It's something I wish I could do, but dd father wouldn't let me take her. Only another ten years!

Calahonda is very expensive for property though, and remember if you buy an apartment there will be monthly maintenance fees. A 3 bed apartment starts from around €160,000 whereas in the Alicante region you can pick one up for around €30,000. A nice house or apartment can be brought for a hell of a lot less, meaning you'll have more euros in the bank, just in case it all goes tits up.

Your kids will be fine. This explains the difference in education here: spainwise.net/education/
They will be fluent in a year or less.
You will have to learn the language, in order to deal with day-to-day stuff such as the bank, utility companies, doctors etc.

You'll have to have medical insurance, as you won't be covered by the EU anymore, and I believe it's quite pricey.

Mystery- we had that scary thought recently for March 31st.. I agree and get what you are saying but I believe it’s very scare mongering (to a point) x

It could be very difficult to find work in Spain.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-75384782.html

You could buy a home like this and be a hour from Kings cross on the train, good schools (including grammar) as well.

I have family who live in Spain; they emigrated about 15 years ago.

Pros:

• Lovely climate (although the south is HOT in high season - last time we went to see them in late August it was 35 in the shade).
• Wonderful food. The produce in the supermarkets is good and the fruit and veg is much nicer than you get here.
• Very child friendly and the cafe culture is good.
• Good schools and the opportunity to have the kids be biligual.
• Residency in an EU country gives you the benefits of being in the EU.

Cons:

• Not so cheap anymore. Some things are cheaper but wages are lower so it's all relative. Some things can be very expensive - it's cheaper for me to buy Spanish strawberries at Tesco here than it is in Carrefour in Spain!
• The bureaucracy takes a bit of getting used to. The 'mañana mañana' approach to everything is getting better though. However, town hall 'rules' can be an eye-opener. I know someone who queued all day to get something sorted, then when they got to the front of the line, the window closed for the day with no explanation or apology - go home, come back tomorrow!
• The heat. The south can be very hot so be prepared for air-con costs. Conversely the winters can be cold and the houses (including apartments) are not built to retain heat - you will need heaters.
• Electricity isn't that cheap and supplies can be a bit unreliable. Quite common in some buildings to have to sort out an arrangement of not using certain appliances at the same time!
• Healthcare is excellent but expensive. If the UK does leave the EU then the current reciprocity arrangement for health is likely to end. You'll need to pay for health insurance.
• You don't speak the language. Fine to say that you want to go to an 'English' area but that won't insulate you from needing to see, speak to and deal with Spanish-speaking people. Your kids will be going to school with little Spanish. When you go to the bank, the supermarket, the Doctor, the hairdresser, ring the phone or utility company, your car insurer... Yes, many people can speak English, but lots don't. If you want to truly integrate then you need to speak the language.

Think very carefully about doing this. I know lots of people who went out there and then after 5 years or so decided they wanted to come back, and couldn't afford to because property in the UK is so expensive.

Here's the info published by the government:
Spanish residency and visas

Could you find somewhere in spain cheaper for say 150k. Keep 50k in the bank and have a safety net. Your DH could aim to work in London for 18 months to cover the cost of the move and give you a chance to find work. Then move across and you support the family whilst he looks for work?

Sounds like you've been over to spain a lot so know it well enough to want to live there. What do the kids think?

Alternatively put the money in the bank and rent in spain for a year to see if you like it enough to stay long term. That might be a safer option. If it al falls apart then come back and buy a house outright in a much cheaper area of the uk.

We moved to Spain 2 years ago and are very happy here. You need to think through the practicalities though, it's not as simple as just buying a property - in order to live here legally as an EU citizen (so prior to Brexit) you will need to show that you have either a Spanish work contract OR a regular income from elsewhere (about 700 euro per month per person) or significant savings in a Spanish bank, you plus health insurance. Post Brexit it will be more complicated as it's a significantly higher amount for income - I think at the moment it's about 28,000 euro per annum for the main applicant plus around 4,000 per dependent and you would need to apply for a visa to live here.
Sorry if that's not what you want to hear but you could make your situation a whole lot worse by jumping into something without understanding the legalities.

Why does your DH keep losing his job? Is this an excuse to split up, as you'll be leaving him behind?

There is extremely high unemployment in Spain, nearly 30% of young people. And you don't even speak the language.

The result of this move is likely to be that you'll just use up all the equity in your home. Then you'll be in a far worse position than before. As PPs have suggested, think about a move within the UK and you'd be more likely to make it work.

After Brexit you will find this harder to do. Not impossible, just harder. But if you like it, why not. Not sure why you want to live in a solidly expat area though?

I don't understand why you wouldn't just move somewhere in the UK. You've got more options than London or Spain that wouldn't need your children to move away from their entire network of friends and family to a country where they don't speak the language. I think moving to Spain would be entirely selfish and youre panicking about your debt. Have you looked at the money matters board here on Mumsnet? Theres some great advice and posters and with their help I've paid £8k off my debt in a year with 2-3 years to go til I'm debt free - and I started with £21k debt. We are still managing to live as well.

Oh and employment - yes you can do waitressing work, but the pay is low and the hours are long. You could find work in an 'English' bar where the majority of the clientele is expat Brits, but there is a lot of competition for those types of job as you won't be the only expat Brit who doesn't speak Spanish and needs work! You'll also be up against Spaniards who are bilingual and speak very good English.

The bars near our family are open for very long hours - normally 8 in the morning until 1am the next morning (without a break). If you end up waitressing then you'll be on shifts - if you have two young kids then where is your childcare coming from and will you be able to afford it?

It could be very difficult to work in Spain if you are not an EU citizen benefiting from free movement and have no relevant qualifications. There are very many well qualified beauty therapists in Spain (quite a few come to the UK to earn relatively more).
So far we are still on course to leave the EU this year, in which case any quals you have would not be recognised.
FWIW I do have an EU passport, could find sufficient funds to move to Portugal (which I would love to do), and could supplement my pension by working there. But I’d still be reluctant to do it.

I don't think you should do this. Don't split up your family. That will just add another whole level of stress to your situation. I think you should sell your house and move to a cheaper area. Could you find something with income potential, an extra room to rent out to a trusted renter or student. Find a steady, reliable, full time job here that has opportunity for progression (for you). Continue to do pet care or beauty treatments on the wknds if that's an option. Make yourself a business page on Facebook or something and focus on improving your current situation. I wouldn't be making such a drastic move without your husband going with you. Imagine what life will be like for him just renting a room with strangers, all by himself in London. :(

Is this really true though? I have heard this but have also heard about lots of people that don’t fit into this/apply?

I think it sounds like a mad plan unless you can have a large amount, like 50K, saved to survive there.

1. Flights are no longer so cheap. How often will your husband be able to fly down? How far is the nearest airport

1. You'll need a car. Can you afford that?

1. After Brexit, will the children be entitled to free state school?

1. Life is no longer so cheap there. Plenty of full time workers only earn €850 per month. With that, you'll be restricted to stay in the area. No flights home

1. Working in hospitality means long hours at night, summers, etc. Will you leave the kids alone at home?

1. The children will learn Spanish but they'll need a bit of help at the beginning. Can you afford that? I'm talking with knowledge here, as I'm Spanish and have a British born bilingual son (from birth). He's perfectly good at talking, but I think he'd find it a bit tricky if he had to do all his studies in Spanish. Spanish education is good but it's very based on writing and memorising.

1. Opening a business, as an "autonomo" which means freelance can be expensive. You have to pay 300 euro per month in tax, whether you are earning or not. Some months you could be in negative earnings.

1. A lot of earnings are undeclared in Spain, so you could possibly find a job where you are working illegally. However, no security

Tessa- thank you that’s great advice 😊

He and I have both lived in Spain many years ago. He is the one saying he’d rent a room to keep his job. I’m not saying or telling him this.
He is worried about getting a job in Gibraltar

As a previous poster stated (sandwich?) we’d have to have proof of earnings and income etc (which is soul destroying)

Selling up and moving up north wouldn’t make a lot of sense as H only can get work in London and I’ve got a pet care business

But if he works in financial services then why not consider Manchester or Edinburgh? Both of which are cheaper than London and both have very strong financial districts. What is he doing that can only be done in London?

Why don’t you just move somewhere cheaper, like Lincolnshire or Wales? Your husband’s job doesn’t sound worth hanging on to if he keeps being made redundant. He’d be better off getting s job as a bus driver - we’ll still need bus drivers for a long time.

Your H’s intermittent employment seems to be the real problem. Move somewhere cheaper and get him to train in a trade. Good electricians can earn plenty. It’s also (I think) a shortage trade in Aus/NZ so you could have a longer term plan to emigrate there.

How does it make more sense to move to Spain (where you have huge moving costs, flight costs to see DP, no income, new language, worse economy jobs wise than here) than it does to move to a cheaper place in the UK? Especially with the looming threat of Brexit meaning you might have to return soon anyway?

A little thing called Brexit could completely scupper this plan...

Essex and the South Coast around Southampton have insurance jobs too.