To sell up and move to Spain ?

[MijasMaddie]

Hi MN’s!

I’ve nc! So in a nutshell.. I’ve got two DC (sons) 8yrs and 10yrs. DH is 13 years older than me. (I’m mid thirties he’s late 40s)

He works in financial sales and I’m a small business owner (pet care/boarding).

We have a home in a lovely place on the outskirts of London. BUT we are struggling to live!

My DH has unfortunately been out of work/made redundant SO many times! We’ve been together 13 years and it seems every 2/3 years he is out of work.

A couple of years ago he had to ‘leave’ instead of being pushed and was out of work nearly a whole year! This has put us in such a bad financial situation.

We now pay the mortgage and the bills but we have hardly anything to live on. The mortgage and outgoings are huge.

Credit cards maxed out. I’m in touch with debt companies etc only so much can be done!

Life is a hamster wheel and borrowing from Peter to pay Paul etc..

AIBU to sell up and move to Spain? We attended Spanish lessons (myself, DH, DC) but stopped a couple of years ago! So we are no way fluent!

I have no money nor does DH but we have money in our home. After selling our home we could have enough to buy a three bed apartment in Southern Spain (ideally Calahonda area).

DH is saying he’ll have to stay here and rent a room outskirts of London to work his job in the city etc.

I could get rid of my debts and this misarable life but I will also have burnt all bridges to ever be able to come back.

My youngest is 8 and a young sweet 8. He’d be happy and make friends anywhere. But my eldest is 10 going on Kevin the Teenager! I’d have to put them through Spanish state school (also thinking of doing Cambridge p/t home school modules) if he hated it then he’ll hate me!!

Pros - I’d have the debts and financial burdens weighing me down gone. I’d be living in a sunny climate.
I am qualified in beauty industry, massage, animal pet training care..

Cons- what if it all goes wrong?

I’ve wanted to move to Southern Spain since 2013. I love it there. I fully appreciate living there is different to a holiday.

Only other option is to sell this house and rent there for a year (?)

Are kids that are about to turn 9 and 11 too old to be put in a Spanish state school?

I cannot go on like this 😑 too over drawn too broke. Don’t know how I’ll afford food for this week!

The thought of selling up and being able to buy a spacious penthouse in Spain has never been so tempting.

Ps. I have experience in beauty, make up, massage in case you wondered what I’d do over there. Also a very experienced animal carer.

• also Brexit is a factor but as it stands I know I can still go there ...

Please give me some advice (shake some sense into me!) thank you! X

I am wondering how my friend does it.

How anyone does it that hasn’t sat and thought about it for 10 years and become fluent in a foreign language and taken courses to become a teacher and has a job lined up in teaching (even though they are qualified in another career and could turn their hand to anything) before they have stepped foot in a country.

@Oliversmumsarmy , I'm sure your friend does fine. I've done fine in the past. But a tra-la-la attitude to debt as displayed in the Op and no understanding of the impact on her kids as well as an assumption that school age kids don't need childcare doesn't indicate a person in a place to make sensible plans.

^The Spanish government have been quite clear that British citizens legally resident (so signed into the list of EU residents in Spain by proving income and health cover) in Spain at the date of Brexit will be allowed to stay on the same terms. The UK government have not said whether they will continue to fund the reciprocal health agreement for those that currently have it ( and not everyone can get that anyway after the rules changed in 2014) so that may be problematic for some.
The Spanish government are equally clear that post Brexit British citizens wishing to emigrate to Spain will be third- country applicants and will gave go through the far more stringent visa application process (which had to be renewed every few years).^

I agree you are thinking of Brexit as a small glitch, but actually, I live in another EU country. (Married to a national) & the British who are living here will now be needing to get visas, & believe me the administration here is not making it easy, these visas will need renewing periodically, Post Brexit, You could get ejected at any time.
Also I know to Brits who have lived here for over 20 years, have an income, house & established family who have applied, & have been refused residency.
Also, to be absolutely honest, the majority of the British where I live , are either massively independently wealthy, or borderline poor.doing odd jobs, like cleaning apartments, & subsisting in the winter, they are considered by the locals as "white trash".

The Costa del Sol is a magnet for people running away from troubles at home and starting over. My DP lived not far from Calahonda for twenty years and although they loved it they said you couldn't believe a word anyone said about themselves. Quite a lot of them actually on their uppers, getting by on cash in hand work, a bit of cleaning, handyman stuff, anything they can pick up.

Of course there are plenty of legit expats living comfortable settled lives, but just don't believe all of what you see.

bellinisurge

What I was trying to say was op has thought these things through. The plan has been in place for years and if she was thinking of her children she would go now and not in 5 years time when they are at senior school and in the middle of GCSEs. Sometimes you do have to go now and not later because later will just throw up different problems that might not be overcome.

Considering the number of people who do go abroad to live and make it work and are very happy when you read this thread you would think no one does move unless they speak the language fluently, they have a well paid job in place and are independently wealthy and never need to work anyway and they are also all running away from things (and as one pp stated running away is not the answer)

I have spent my life running away from people and things that have made me unhappy. Running away never solved anything was a thing my mother used to say.
I have actually found running away has made me very happy. If I hadn’t “run away” from a depressing life up north I know I wouldn’t be here today.
Staying in a situation that makes you sad and depressed makes you a martyr and you won’t get a medal for it.

Don’t forget op has already familiarised herself with the language.
Has a couple of areas where she could start a business and will probably look around when she is out there and find there is something else she could turn her hand to.
Has income from her dh’s job and will have paid off all the debts. Which sounds an excellent place to be in.

I have found also that waiting just allows meddling people to get involved who just want to drag you down to their level.

Another person I know who spent a couple of years in Spain in the 90s and came back to the UK because of her dh’s work and to have children has just divorced her dh, left him in the UK and has gone back with all the dc (including adult children) because after the 10 years was up her dh put off and put off going back and she just wanted to be back where she was very happy. By all accounts things are going very well for her and her dc too.

People upsticks and move around the world to countries where they don’t know the language, have a job in place and money to support themselves everyday and make it work.
My own family came to this country not speaking a word of English, or having any work and just in the clothes they stood up in and made it work and lived through grinding poverty and some very very tough times.

If they had upsticks after a few years and moved to another country (which was the plan) they would have had a much easier time. (I couldn’t imagine it being worse than the poverty I grew up in)

Mine and dps plans will never come to fruition because life (or rather a terminal illness) means we will have to stay in the UK.

Side note on the NHS. They don’t pay for anything apart from diagnosis, which if they had been able to do that 9 months before then Dp would not be dying. Initial operations and palliative care.
We had to pay for dps operation to extend his life because the NHS thought it was not worth it.

If we had just jacked everything in and followed our dream and been not sensible, (not learned the language, arrived with just our bags and enough to start a business and get us going) the result would have been much much better than what we have been left with.

I'm really sorry about your DH, oliver.

But I do think it's irresponisble to take 2 children, one of almost secondary school age to another country, culture and language on such flimsy plans.

Don’t forget op has already familiarised herself with the language. From what I understand she knows a bit of Spanish. There's a big difference going on holiday and doing a bit of holiday Spanish to trying to navigate schools, residency, accounting, healthcare, helping your child with homework. And it underestimates how exhausting all that is.
Has a couple of areas where she could start a business again, there is so much bureaucracy in Spain and running your own business is not cheap or easy. It's a minimum of €283 a month, the second you start up in business (unless you can get yourself the tarifa plana, which gives you a couple of months at lower rates, but as I understand it if your business folds, you have to repay what you would have been paying without the tarifa plana) and will probably look around when she is out there and find there is something else she could turn her hand to. probably doesn't pay the rent though, does it? What happens if she can't actually find work that fits with childcare? How long will it take to start making a profit from her business? If she's going to buy properties to rent (as suggested earlier) how will she get them registered officially (so as to avoid the possible €20,000 fine for not doing so)?

Has income from her dh’s job and will have paid off all the debts. How will this work? Is he not going to Spain? What's the point of that?

I expect I'll get called joyless again, but this idea that "it'll all be fine" or you can just want it hard enough and you'll "make it work" is wishful thinking. Other people made it work because they had a job or they had enough funds.

If she had a job to come to, or she clearly had the funds to buy outright and then support herself for a good long while, well maybe, although unless she can afford international schools for the children I think it's a really bad age to put them (especially the eldest) in Spanish state schools with basically no Spanish.

Why not move within the UK, get herself into a better position financially and learn some Spanish for fun and have lots of holidays in Spain?

Has income from her dh’s job and will have paid off all the debts. How will this work? Is he not going to Spain? What's the point of that

^ Can work on lots of different ways. He stays here (even with his DM down the road in her generous sized home and it’s on central line) and continues to work and visits. (Airfare is cheaper than train fares up and down the country)

We should get around £230k after sale and I’m
Looking at either renting up front for 11 months in Spain or looking at spending £175 maybe £185k max for a lovely place in calahonda area.

And regarding childcare. I would look into working from home. I’ve always managed it here. With TEFL you can work from home, I’ve done other jobs WFH. I’m sure lots of you reading this also have WFH.
I’d have DH’s money coming in (he’d have less financial burden) and eventually (hopefully) he’d get a job either Sp, Gib or WFH. If not will continue to be in UK and visit.

Childcare
My DS’s are nearly 9 and 11. I’m not going tomorrow! It may realistically be 18 months time! They are not tiny babies. And I’m already in talks with at home schooling Cambridge .. even if they go to a Spanish school we will definitely want them to do at home modules in English and Maths.

Just to throw another idea into the pot - you could get a 3 bed house close to the university city of Coimbra in Portugal for €59,000.

www.pureportugal.co.uk/property/carvalhal-dos-sapos/

Golondrina

Have you actually read any of ops posts if you are asking how she would pay her rent without working and no he is not going to Spain with her.

How will that work? Probably the same if op moved up north except the air fare is cheaper than the train fare every Friday and Sunday evening and the family time would be better in Spain because of the weather and the lighter nights.

One thing to note op is if eventually you live in Spain and your dh is “commuting” to Gibraltar. The border takes an age to get through.
We went recently and there was more checking to get in and out of Gibraltar than there was travelling from Dover into France

Yes I have read them, she said before she wouldn't have enough money to support herself, a while back someone asked if she could meet the requirements and she said no. If she will have lenty of money after selling up and paying off her debts, well great, but it's not what she said way back.
Still think there are better ways to imporve her life than moving to spain, but I wish her all the best either way.

Oliver’s- very good point. It’s a headache just to visit for a day let alone work there day in day out! Ty

A lot of the problems getting through Gibraltar is because the road goes through the airstrip.

So if a planes ready to land/take off they close the road (obviously). Not so bad in winter, but come summer could create a headache if your dh was commuting every day.

Also after Brexit, who knows what will happen at the border. Just things to consider.

Sarah - wow! That beautiful Portuguese house for that price! Crazy!

Also after Brexit, who knows what will happen at the border. Just things to consider

MrsCasares- thank you and agree .. never want to wish I did it before if things prove more difficult in the future/after 31.10.19

Ty x

That house in Portugal is in the middle of nowhere! That's why it's €59,000.

Jun- I do understand that! I know it’s not the sort of place I’d like to buy which would be 4 x as much! I appreciate it’s not two mins to bars, restaurants, gym, banks beach etc. Etc ,,, was just replying to Sarah and saying it looked lovely

Some of us like living in the middle of nowhere! That was just an example, but it is very commutable to Coimbra which is one of the oldest university cities in Europe and is also a tourist centre. Outside of the Algarve can get a decent, liveable property for less than €100,000 and the employment opportunities are similar to Spain, albeit equally low paid and difficult if you don't speak the language. If you have a trade you can market to the expat community it helps enormously (obviously!)
.

Sarah- totally agree and that would be a dream of mine to live in the middle of nowhere! I just don’t have the means to do that otherwise I’d be there in a heartbeat 💗

Can I just add my experience? I'm half Chilean and have always felt a bit of an outsider here. Studied Spanish so I could move to Spain and teach English. Thought I would be a natural as I had an English literature degree.
Oh my, did I suck! I went to Madrid and started planning lessons only to find that actually our stupid language doesn't make any sense. My intermediate Spanish actually hindered me as TEFL classrooms were supposed to be 'English Only' zones and I would keep speaking my terrible Spanish to the kids. The only thing I managed to pass on was a Bristolian accent and possibly the correct way to use the slang term 'safe.'
My advice would be to try teaching a lesson first before spending any money on a qualification as we're not all born to be teachers.
Also, I felt really lonely. As much as I thought I was going to find my place in this world, I missed Britishness. The lack of queuing, the sexism, shop opening times, the strange laws, the bloody stupid heat! I had to endure a whole dinner party once where my Spanish friends all reeled off a million horror stories about Brits in Spain. Of course they have the right to, as we arrive en mass at every seaside resort and wreck it with our drunken, twatish behaviour.
What is it about Spain, in particular, Spanish culture that really attracts you? Please don't say the weather!

One of the things I enjoy about Spanish culture is the fact that everything is still open for business late into the night.

Having driven through France and Spain last year we knew if we wanted to stop for dinner then we had to stop much earlier in France than when we got to Spain.

In France everything is locked up and shut by 9o'clock at night and it is like a ghost town in many of the cities

Everything open far into the night generally = far too hot to do anything in the middle of the day except stay indoors and sleep.

Extra- thank you sharing that!
When you say you were lonely was it because you went alone? I only ask as I went to Spain as a teen to look after children and I didn’t know anyone and it was years before I had DC. I too was very lonely.
This is why I plan to not go rural or mainland/city and to (one day) go to somewhere very ex pat like Calahonda, La Cala...
I DO understand most jobs will be in the cities though (teaching English)
And with TEFL I’m very limited etc.

Lastly you ask me what is the appeal of Spain
The fact that you can take your family out late and it’s not frowned upon
Family life and eating together is the norm
Catholic country (I’m Catholic) this isn’t important btw but I’m just saying my personal reasons!
Outdoor living instead of 8 months of cold grey England .. instead of kids being on PS4 /fortnite/ etc there’s a more real outdoor living life in Spain. Socialising snd playing.
Beach/sea - free.
Swimming pool.
300+ days of sunshine.
Heat lessons my slightly damaged knee
Blue skies and sunshine reduces SAD disorder

Some of the things I do not like are the amount of stray dogs 😔 animal welfare has a long way to go (bull fighting 😩)

borntobequiet

Everything open far into the night generally = far too hot to do anything in the middle of the day except stay indoors and sleep.

Most places are air conditioned though!