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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Relative receiving benefits although able to work

167 replies

Radiator23 · 13/04/2019 16:01

Hi, I hope someone can help with a crisis of conscience and also practical advice.

A relative receives benefits and lives in a council flat (just her) in a village near my family and does not work. About 25 years ago she had mental health problems and was very ill. Since then she has had all the help the NHS and DWP have to offer and for several years (I’d say about 10) has certainly been well enough to do some work, even part time in a shop or something.

She does no volunteering, gets subsidised travel, arts and music classes, gym membership, has some sort of support worker to show her life skills (although she can manage perfectly well, she is 45 and in excellent physical health).

She can drive but chooses not to, and is constantly asking other family members to give her lifts, take her to family events, generally go out of our way, as well as also being unwilling to solve her own minor home problems, eg. calling a repairman, connecting TV to broadband. She joins her parents on holiday several times a year - they pay for everything.

She has quite a nice life really (sorry this is probably sounding a bit bitter). Other adult family members have had their own health problems over the years but still worked when able. My view is you pay into the system when you can and take when you really need to. Everyone is getting a bit fed up with this person but no-one will say anything to her. It makes family get-togethers very awkward.

I keep reading about how awful those work assessments are and wonder how on earth she can still be receiving benefits when people who are physically disabled and suffering life limiting illnesses are being told they are fit for work. However I have no direct experience of the system so perhaps there is something I don’t understand.

Any advice on either dealing with this, approaching the relevant agency, or tackling it with her, or just learning not to care would be really helpful. I don’t think this counts as benefit fraud, but I have seen her play up the severity of her situation when questioned on it by others so I would not put it past her to do the same with external organisations. I think she does it to defend her lifestyle but cannot see that doing some work would help her as well as be the right thing to do by society.

OP posts:
PepsiPeach · 13/04/2019 21:05

My view is you pay into the system when you can and take when you really need to.

This is where it was evident that you're not having a crisis of conscience. This is you being bitter and judgemental, thinking you're having to 'fund' the lifestyle of your relative. Where did you do your medical training? Where did you do your benefit assessor training? It isn't easy to just get benefits now days you know? It's also not easy having a mental health condition at all let alone one that stops you working. People don't just get over mental health conditions. They don't just wake up one day and everything is back to normal. You have no idea what her condition feels like. She has a support worker for god sake! Do you know how hard it is to get a personal support worker?! Get over yourself!

PatricksRum · 13/04/2019 21:10

You're absolutely ridiculous.
I'll tell you how to learn not to care, leave your house and listen to people. You obviously have the life of Riley.

shesgrownhorns · 13/04/2019 21:13

That sounds terrible @JanMeyer but she could still be faking it!

Herja · 13/04/2019 21:13

Do you not think that all this help she recieves is what keeps her able to do what she can do now? That actually, no, she can't bloody work; that she can with help hold a vaguely normal life together but that work would push her over?

I have known 2 people on long term disability for mental health. Both appear functional, both manage day to day life with a wee bit of support. Neither could manage work. Neither could run a house without support. Both face/d regular criticism. One is dead now, 4 months ago, destroyed themselves over the last decade. The one where the neighbours, some family, ex friends, all thought they'd be fine in a job instead.

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 13/04/2019 21:15

I could write masses here but I won't except to say that IF she claims PIP it is a bloody awful benefit to claim for. Everything is checked and on top of the huge form (my son's ran to 50+ pages by the time I had added all the evidence) there is likely to be a face to face assessment too.

Huge numbers are declined after this.

So she won't be getting PIP for no good reason. The evidence has to be robust.

I also care part time for a lady who struggles massively with mental health...its a miserable life. It doesn't stop comments from ignorant folk who don't know her as well as I do.

She's getting nothing that she isn't entitled to.

Yes if people can work that's best and sometimes it helps mental health. However many cannot. Let's be glad we don't have such ill health.

Cryalot2 · 13/04/2019 21:19

If it troubles you so much then report her to the relevant lot.
A mental state is invisible. You can't switch it off or on . By the same you don't choose to have it .
She is fortunate to get benefits as not everyone does.

tinytemper66 · 13/04/2019 21:19

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x2boys · 13/04/2019 21:23

Well you realise that some people live in council.accommodation and still work? SomePeople receive disability benefits and have no physical disability , my son has severe autism and learning disabilities he can run as fast as the wind and climb the highest tree but at nine can't talk or go to the toilet he gets DLA ,

AdamAntsCrackpotHistory · 13/04/2019 21:25

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ExhaustedGrinch · 13/04/2019 21:31

Thank you for this thread OP. Thank you because I have severe mental health problems but you would never know to look at me. I often feel judged in the manner that you have judged your relative, it sometimes feels like everyone thinks the way that you do. However, thanks to your thread and subsequent responses I see that YOU are in the minority and that actually there is a huge amount of people who are understanding, who do 'get it' - a massive thank you to those posters who have made me feel a load better about my own situation. Flowers

Thecurtainsofdestiny · 13/04/2019 21:37

It is very difficult to get benefits for having difficulties due to a mental health disorder.

If she gets them, she must really need them.

Madein1995 · 13/04/2019 23:10

Ok, just throwing my two pence worth in. I work (as admin) for the fraud team in DWP. That means I receive allegations, decide if any have any weight (basically does the claimant recieve benefit and could the allegation affect benefit). I then trace the claimant and anyone related to the allegation and route it off to the correct team.

It isn't particularly thrilling and I don't particularly like it. But it's a job and money.

I hate hate hate the doubtful disability ones. Having worked on PIP I know how hard the process is. I know how strict the criteria is and how the 'professionals' conduct assessments. I know how long the process takes and the effect that ridiculous waiting period has on already vulnerable claimants, mental health. I'm aware of how human error van affect payment which can cause stress to claimants.

I'm particularly aware that PIP is not an out of work benefit. I'm aware that getting PIP is NOT easy. I'm also aware that the public's opinion of disability and particularly mental health, is not enlightened. To be polite.

I think you may be confusing ESA and PIP. ESA means you struggle to work. PIP does not. PIP evaluates your ability to do everyday tasks such as dressing and taking medication,and scores you accordingly. Work does not come into it.

From your post I see you're basically annoyed that your relative is getting help which includes a support worker, that she is lazy (insinuated by the fact that you begrudge her asking for favours - which no one is obliged to give!) And that she could work, so ought to

People making allegations do not understand disability. I've received allegations of people making sandwiches so clearly can work a job. Or the best yet, that someone takes their elderly mum to her appointment's so clearly is faking.

The people making the complaints are ignorant. They have no clue about mental health or the benefit systems. They have a chip on their shoulder a mile wide, a superiority complex and a shocking lack of compassion. They seem to be under the impression that the DWP hand out PIP awards along with a free car, 10vrand and a big lollipop. They are sad people with sad lives. I hate putting the allegations on as I can spot which ones are just jealousy. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to. I see if benefits in payment, if those would be affected by the allegation, and pass it on.

Of course, people say something like 'if you're innocent there's nothing to worry about.' not true. Many PIP claimants have mental health issues. Do you have any idea what a investigation does to them? It sounds like your relative has anxiety, serious anxiety. How do you think an investigation would Impact her?

Investigations always assume guilt until proven otherwise. Aside from anything else, it must be hard being disabled and knowing what public perception is. Especially if your disability us hidden. Knowing that your every move is scrutinized, that you know you're not a scrounger but what must others think. When I worked PIP so many people would call and apologize for disturbing me - explain they never claim benefits before, are grateful for the help, aren't scroungers etc, and are so sorry to be a nuisance. That's before they even explain the problem. What a shitty society we live in that they feel they have to do that.

Seriously op do not report. I see nothing there showing a proper allegation. Just that you're fed up with her and resentful, and 'knlw' she's getting support she doesn't need. Btw have you seen the state of services in the UK ? My friend has anorexia and is in the danger zone. She asked for help in October. All she has had since then has been meetings with drs asking the same questions. No advice or help given yet. The services are so bad here that you need to be pretty bad, to access support.

And anyway, your opinion matters. You know she doesn't need support. You know. Despite the fact that you only see what she chooses you see, which is in likelihood, a brave face. You know more than the drs, support workers, assessors etc. To be getting pip or ESA she has ti pass difficult criteria, it is not easy.

Seriously op. Don't bother reporting her. Don't be one of those petty knobs

NaturatintGoldenChestnut · 13/04/2019 23:19

Great post, Made!

Can't believe this disablist, GF thread is still standing.

Madein1995 · 13/04/2019 23:19

Agree with Jan the DWP do not tread lightly. If anything the assessors ask hard questions to see the impact it has. They will ask why people didn't succeed etc. At no point do people who've previously attempted suicide, get left alone

S1naidSucks · 13/04/2019 23:20

Thank you for that lovely post, Madein1995, I’m currently waiting for a decision on my youngest, regarding pips and it gives me hope that people like you work in it.

Hwory · 13/04/2019 23:21

I haven’t read the full thread but you sound like an ARSEHOLEEEEEEEE.

Sincerely a benefits assessor xoxo

lilabet2 · 13/04/2019 23:23

Definitely don't report her.

How well do you really know her? Isn't it possible that she is still really struggling with her mental health but just doesn't disclose it all to you? If she's still under a 'Support worker' then her local CMHT are obviously still deeming her to have significant problems. What if you reported her and then her benefits were stopped but you found that she really isn't able to hold down a job?

LilQueenie · 13/04/2019 23:24

yabu. when it comes to mental health there are lots of things misunderstood.

JanMeyer · 13/04/2019 23:26

shesgrownhorns - On the balance of probabilties I seriously doubt it, have you read any of the posts here explaining just how difficult it is to claim PIP for mental health problems?
And you think a person could fool doctors, the DWP and social services?

But then again I always doubt these sorts of threads are even about a real person, at least I hope they aren't. These kinds of threads always have a few things in common, for one thing the poster will almost always be clueless about what benefits their ill/disabled relative is actually claiming, and they never seem to know (at least they pretend not to know) that a person can claim PIP and work.
They also seem to be oddly resentful and jealous of their sick/disabled relative, which really fucking weird.
And in the case of this poster they seem annoyed that their relative has "gotten all the help going from the NHS." Gee, how fucked up is that, resenting a sick person getting help.
And they don't seem to think mental illness is a really disability either, as the OP made abudantly clear towards the end of their post.

But the main reason I think this thread is probably bullshit is because of their claim their relative has a support worker and gets all sorts of subsidised classes. If any of that is true, then I'd love to know where they live. Because services for disabled people are being slashed to the bone, and in most places are practically non-existent.

What always scares me about these threads is there's at least one person who says "if you think they're faking report them, if they're claiming honestly then they'll have nothing to worry about."
That's great, just turn someone else's life upside down because, you, some random person (with all their medical training Angry ) have decided they must be faking because you can go outside every once in a while. Do you have any idea how much disabled people hear crap like this? Lines like "oh, well if you can go out to the cinema then you must be able to get a job."
Because you know going out to the cinema two or three times a month is totally the same as getting and keeping a job. People should bear in mind, they only see what's on the surface. You see the person out, you don't see what it cost them to get there - or the price they'll have to pay afterwards. But sure, go ahead and report a disabled person because we dare to have some fun in our miserable little life once in a while.

lilabet2 · 13/04/2019 23:27

PS. Who wants to be 45, living alone, living on very little (PIP and ESA together = a very low income) and relying on family for lifts?

AvengersAssemble · 13/04/2019 23:30

Mind your own business OP. Are you now a professional and able to offer your opinion based on full assessments, or are you just s bitter jealous busybody who should mind her own?

Raspberrytruffle · 13/04/2019 23:37

Leave the poor woman alone op! You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. When you are lucky enough to be awarded pip its usually for a short period I e 1/ 3 years which is renewed 1 year before it's due to end to which you have to provide a shit load of medical evidence of everyone who provides your care, you have to also attend a f2f assessment which is bloody awful. Can you imagine having to go through the stress and worry of this every 1/2 years? Believe me if she was faking it as you seem to think she wouldn't get her pip renewed. Concentrate on making yourself happy and improving your life rather than trying to destroy someone else's life. It sounds like the green eyed monster.

aibutohavethisusername · 13/04/2019 23:40

The subsidised classes may be therapeutic or through a recovery college or similar.

zsazsajuju · 13/04/2019 23:40

The responses on here are vile. No one has any idea if the ops claim that her relative is playing up is true or not. We simply don’t know and I don’t see the need for all the venom.

Op I agree that it sounds frustrating. I too have a relative who gets disability benefits for issues related to addiction. I often feel like if they had to work it would be helpful as the benefits allow them to spend all day drinking. Working would improve her self confidence and help her socially. It’s not clear cut and there are no simple answers but I do feel that the benefits are a cycle she is stuck in.

RUOKHUN · 13/04/2019 23:41

OP won’t be back. It was pretty much unanimous that she hasn’t got a clue.
Hopefully she gained some food for thought though... doubt it though.