Haven't been allowed to see DGD since Christmas...AIBU

[Livvylovesgin]

So, DGD lives 3 hours away. Step DS and SDIL have separated. DS is only allowed ( by SDIL) 30 mins supervised contact per week ( twice actually in 6 weeks).

We are visiting family near to DGD, in a couple of weeks, and would really like to see DGD.

Last week I offered SDIL a couple of dates ( so 28/29th) when we are nearby. She said she would think about it. She has and come back with the 30th!

AIBU to feel aggrieved that we will be driving over on the 28th, back on the 29th. Then will need to drive over again for the day on the 30th, a round trip of 6 hours!

In OP’s fence she isn’t actually this girl’s MIL - she is a step parent.

Not saying that to disrespect the relationship, but this girl has a MIL - her husband’s mum - so hat is maybe why OP is more of a friend than a MIL - she isn’t the MIL or the grandmother.

Defence not fence!!

I have no idea the rights and wrongs of this relationship but 2 things to mention.

In terms of ds’s the longer he leaves access this way the more likely he will be offered less .

When I had mediation with my ex mediator said contact with dad was sorted before grandparents.

He can apply for mediation then courts without a solicitor.

I would also go and take her a nice bunch of flowers .

OP am sorry you are getting so many questions here. In terms of the visit I'd alter your plans to go.

If at all possible.

It sounds like you have a good relationship with SDIL so keep that going. You sound like a voice of calm in a stormy situation.

Hope things work out.

People seem to find it hard to believe women use children as pawns and withhold contact.

You see these situations a lot on the steparent board. Man meets a new partner and contact is withheld. She asks for money on top of child support and if he doesn't give it, contact can be withheld.

Sometimes on MN, other women act like all women are angels. That's not true at all.

OP - if you can stay the extra night do that. If it's not possible, arrange another time in the future.

I can't believe how many people have latched on to small details to beat the OP over the head with!

SDIL won't let her husband to bes brothers girlfriend of 4 years come to the wedding, so the family sneak her in anyway to the massive night do, and people are concluding that this explains all of the SDILs behaviour since then? And OP must be some kind of over bearing creep especially as SDIL confided in her about the ins and outs of her relationship?

OP listed many ways the SDIL has actually demonstrated some controlling and possibly abusive traits in the past and everyone ignored it?

The mind boggles with some of these responses.

Sorry you've had a hard time OP! Ignore the idiots, you know what to do.

I'm not sure why you are getting the third degree here, OP. It seems fairly clear to me that SDiL is abusive and manipulative. DSS should try for custody, her behaviour is not acceptable.

I think you need to consider how often you would like to see DGC and stick to it. Your visit only really seems because you're in area rather than you try to see her monthly for example? I wouldn't be impressed if I was the mum. DH went through this with his ex and his parents rather naively tried asserting their rights as grandparents where they would have been much better supporting DH to get his rights in place first. Cant you lend your step son some cash to go to court for a proper agreement. That's what is needed. In the meantime, try offering any support you can, send up little cards and gifts for DGC to help show you know her and what she likes. Send the odd text to her mum just checking how she is or you'd love to send her a little gift for (inset occasion, Easter, summer, birthday whatever) is there anything she needs. I'm sure that you think of her all the time but trying to do a visit just when you're in the area may have got the mum's back up

Auntie custody has not existed in the uk for many years now.

Unfortunately domestic abuse survivors often display behaviours that others find hard to understand and it is easy for these to be portrayed as obstructive in court.

Thankfully there is now a lot more understanding and better training within the court on how trauma from da manifests.

All the same, I hope the dil has a good solicitor and has made contact with her local DV service.

All the same, I hope the dil has a good solicitor and has made contact with her local DV service.

Oh good grief. The misandry on this thread is horrendous. Of course the OP's DSS is an abuser, a druggie, and God knows what else. Of course he is - he's a man.

And the SDiL is just protecting her DD from the nasty man, because she couldn't possibly be doing it for any other reason. Of course she couldn't - she's a woman.

I hope next time there's a woman posting on here that her DH/P is making contact difficult and she's not allowed to see her DC, everyone will point out that he's only doing it to protect the little one, that she must have done something to cause him to do that. And not that he's a controlling, abusive dickhead. But I doubt it.

Well said, Morty

At the earlier parts of the thread (and drawing on known facts that it's most often the men who are controlling/abusive/violent and thus children need protecting from them) it flagged up for many PPs that she could be feeling a need to protect her child from someone she didn't feel was safe. We still don't know for sure the answer to this but on further posts it appears less likely.

It appears that she may be the abusive one from further comments - and that too is a real possibility. It sounds more like that to me now too - people can only comment based on what they're told and we were told only (originally) about one single element regarding the dates and travel arrangements for a visit but gradually more information came out.

Clearly appears now that there is indeed something wrong in the relationship and that it could be the SDIL who is the manipulator - it's not uncommon or unheard of.

So I don't think we can blame people for saying "she must be protecting him from this man for a reason" - look at the statistics of which sex perpetrates the most damage on which other sex and that makes that initial line of thinking perfectly valid when it was expressed at that time.

I think it is fair to raise concerns here. The step mother shared a lot of information about this couple which raises red flags. Something is off. Might be the man, might be the women. We don’t know.

He step mother might have to accept me access to her step grand daughter until this is resolved. But the child is seeing her maternal grandparents regularly and has contact with her maternal grandmother.

Also OP hasn’t mentioned her husband, who is the only grandparent who hasn’t seen his grrandaughter. Maybe her could contact his ex DIL and calmly tell her he misses the child and would like to see her. Maybe he will be willing to drive this distance on the date offered, especially if he hasn’t seen the child since Christmas.

It's not misandry to side with the statistical likelihood and wealth of empirical evidence that women tend to make these sorts of unpopular decisions when they are concerned for the safety of their children.

Women's Aid have commissioned a lot of research in this area and i highly recommend reading it before jumping to conclusions about the dil's motives. All available on their website.

On your contact with GDC, she's offered you a date that sort of fits in with your plans with some minor rearrangements (inconvenient I know). Your response is that you can post Easter gifts. It doesn't sound like you're that bothered and have too many other commitments. It doesn't sound like you've made much effort to see the child in the intervening months. 3 hours drive isn't that far, especially if you did an overnight stay.

Your DSS needs to prioritise his child so if needs be he should have thrown a sickie and gone to a solicitor.

It's obviously a difficult time and it seems like neither of them are coping very well but I'd be concerned that she wants to limit contact so much with her husband about exactly what happened between them.

I'm not sure why you are getting the third degree here, OP. It seems fairly clear to me that SDiL is abusive and manipulative. DSS should try for custody, her behaviour is not acceptable .

Exactly. The OP's later comments confirmed my initial thoughts that the DIL was/is the one causing the problems.

I think @ruffle you are projecting muchly on this thread. I'm sorry your ex was an abusive prick. This does not mean all men are and there are actually abusive women out there. My mother was one. Took me a long time to see that she was very much emotionally abusive to both myself and her husband at the time. If I was projecting my experiences onto this thread I would say it sounds like DIL is the controlling abusive one and that the son should be going for full custody and getting his child away from that evil woman, but the reality of it is that none of us truly know what goes on behind closed doors.

At the end of the day OP came here to discuss someone being obtuse with regards to visitation not to have armchair diagnostics on her step sons marriage from all of mumsnet.

OP, I'd do whatever I could to make the 30th happen, she is being obtuse but you don't want to have a situation where she attempts to turn it back on you like you are the unreasonable one here.

Thanks for lots of differing views.

I started with a very simple scenario, maybe badly worded when I read back. I was then led into providing more and more details, most of which are irrelevant to the support I wanted. I do know lots about them as a couple specifically because I am not the MIL. I haven't been a part of this family much longer than she has! We were friends, she drove to see me, she confided in me.

I've seen a very different side of mumsnet which has saddened me. One is the assumption that all females must be in the right, that it is ok to justify keeping the LO away from her DF, that domestic abuse isn't considered to ever be female to male. I know many of SDIL's issues ( haven't shared, not relevant to the support I needed).

There is also the strong assumption that as the MIL I must be meddling. A suspicion that there must be something really wrong at this end. In fact we are just a fairly normal family ( just what is normal?) working through eventualities, doing our best (whatever that may be) with very busy working lives, two sets of elderly parents a distance away, 6 DC's between us and 1 DGD. Who ever teaches you how to be a parent, especially to adults.

I can't win. I am too involved for some, knowing too many details; not involved enough as we only see our DS in the school holidays. ( despite that suiting the couple in question, given the high involvement and prioritizing her own family before us and suiting us and our other DC's.

I will add that 'sneaking' in one of our DS's girlfriends, to the night 'do' at our DS's and SDIL wedding , (attended by SDIL's neighbors, great auntie twice removed) was perfectly ok with the bride at the event. It just couldn't be addressed prior for fear of her reactions.

We are trying to change our arrangements for the visit and will book a hotel.
We are also considering not going at all, so as not to make SDIL and us feel uncomfortable. We may just wait to see DGD when DSS has access.
He is at the solicitors tomorrow.
We always send cards and buy Easter/birthday gifts. We will of course carry on with that.

I started with a fairly simple scenario, asking for some help. I wish I hadn't. I felt much worse by the end of last night, than I did at the start!

Sorry I do know that some of you were supportive! Thank you.

Did someone say NAMALT?!

Statistically men are hundreds of times more likely to commit serious domestic and child abuse and women are far more likely to find themselves in the protective role.

You may choose to see a series of reports evidencing this as projection on my part, but that would be impossible as I had nothing to do with them.

None of us know what the reality is in this case, not even the OP, but it does no harm to bear statistical likelihoods in mind. You don't have to believe AMALT or NWALT in order to do so.

The court will assess all the evidence and make the order they feel is in the best interests of the child.

What I find particularly upsetting about all this is that you say you have a great relationship with her and she could confides in you, but you clearly really dislike her! Implying she's abusing your stepson, is being deliberately unreasonable etc. I feel bad for this potentially vulnerable young woman who clearly has issues that you are manipulating her this way.

As to your actual question - you offered two dates, clearly neither work for her for whatever reason so she is offering you a third adjacent date. It's really that simple, you're reading way too much into it. She is not obliged to drop everything because you happen to be rolling into town, and her not doing so does not have to speak of some malign intent on her part. Take a few mammoth steps back is my advice to you. And stop feigning friendship with this woman so as to dig up dirt to use against her, it's very wrong.

And re her not wanting to be away from her child, why should she want to? The real question is why she is not able to have your son visit without the need for backup. There are some pretty massive missing pieces here I think, which you are unlikely to be in a position to have a dispassionate view on.

I just wanted to know how I moved forward from SDIL response? To ask if we can visit on this date or that, to be then given a third - I was a little surprised given the distance we are travelling.

Ultimately OP you don't get to 'give' her dates and have her accept. You can feel surprised when she won't change her plans to fall in line with your needs, but it's really about her and what she's comfortable with.

It might be her being a knobber, it might be you, nobody here really knows. But what people here do know is that as a Grandparent figure the best way forward is for you to continue with friendly, regular contact, to remain in touch and keep things open between you. Your step son needs to formalise his own arrangements and supporting him with those might help you eventually spend more time with your Grandchild.

I expect to be flamed for this but your exDIL is nasty for withholding contact from her child’s father. She has deliberately chosen a date that makes it impossible for you to see your grandchild. It’s clear that she isn’t going to suddenly become reasonable about access, so you need to get DSS to use the legal system quickly before his DD forgets who he is.

@Bluesmartiesarebest not going to flame you, but she hasn't made it impossible- she's made it inconvenient. I think there's a huge amount of back story here that we just don't have, apart from irrelevant stuff from the OP about their sex life etc, which makes you wonder all by itself.

I'm not a grandparent yet- my DD is only 7, but if there came a day when she wasn't living primarily with me, I'd bend over backwards to have time with her and I suspect same would be true to spend time with a grandchild albeit in a respectful to the parents way. As a professional, as OP has said she is, I wouldn't be splitting hairs at having to spend £50 on a budget hotel to see my grandchild, but it you look back you'll see my comments have been that this is one sided from start. My ex MIL could easily have written equal stuff and dripfed her pov as proven by way she deletes social media posts if she dsnt get attention.