Leavers being so dead against a second referendum is just proof they know they'll lose, surely?

[stillpinching]

If we had one and they won again it would be the ultimate confirmation that it really is the will of the people.

By refusing to countenance it and describing it as a betrayal they may as well say it's not the will of the people anymore we're insisting on honouring something no one with any sense and without a vested interest wants and we should therefore call it off.

We're being forced into something the people who most support it clearly know is no longer the people's choice that's going to do horrible damage to the country. Just why can no one stop it???

Even the biggest brexit supporters in parliament say that it may be a hard road for a number of years

So some people are correct in saying that other people will see what its like to be poor

But A) thats a fucking shit thing to wish on anyone and B) the people who will struggle wont be the rich or the well to do or the comfortable...it'll be the ones who are only just managing now

Posters like Sosig are assuming that they will stay still while all the rich bastards crash down below them, I've got news for you....

cotton

Exactly

We need to tighten our belts? Will cut down on our monthly shopping bill but stay shopping at our usual shops

friend A needs to tighten her belt ? She will shop more at Aldi and home bargains

Friend B needs to tighten her belt? She will skip meals

Rufus I am as bewildered as you. Why are people so wilfully ignoring what's being said loud and clear by all economists and analysts? I genuinely want to understand the stubbornness.

Its beyond me cotton

Mumsnet is full of posters saying ' itll be hard but worth it, short term pain long term gain, grow your own veg'

Even if thats right and its only 5 years of belt tightening

Friend B can't tighten her belt any further

Another friend lives in the council flats locally...how the hell can she grow anything!!!

I think we should have another referendum with two questions: leave/remain then a choice between different leave options in the event that leave wins. Everyone answers both questions and everyone has a say in the outcome.

The problem with Brexit is the absolute failure to recognise that no one voted for any one option and more people support remaining than support any particular form of leaving.

Drives me nuts Rufus I don't remember David Davis or any of his mob telling us we'd have to be eating home grown turnips for 8 months of the year. Not sure the referendum outcome would have quite gone the same way if he had!

sosig, even if you are unable to drum up a modicum of care and empathy for your fellow citizens, at least have the nous to look after your own interests.

If you are already poor, you will not benefit from a financial downturn. You will not benefit from less grant money. You will not benefit from the erosion of your rights.

I repeat, were you not living here for the last ten years? I can't understand otherwise how it managed to escape your comprehension that the poorer were the ones who got shafted by austerity.

mrpan we don't KNOW that brexit will bring any of those things though, do we??

So you haven't been watching/reading/listening to anyone intimately involved in education, import/export, NHS, financial services, fisheries, farming, transport, manufacturing....etc...

FFS

Sounds like you're the one who hasn't been listening, MrPan - and are completely unconscious of your own cognitive biases.

Most of the sectors you mention have had way more people stating the risks of Brexit, and how this will impoverish the country. This is especially true for financial services, which will be at a massive disadvantage if we are out of the single market. Given this sector provides a massive proportion of our national income - i.e., it is the goose that lays the golden egg - you would be wise to listen to ALL the experts, not just those whose opinions chime with your own pre-existing views. Never forget, also, that many people are pushing scenarios that benefit them, but not the country as a whole.

Oh now im confused

Its mrpan agreeing with tolles

Isnt

Its early!!! Thats my excuse and im sticking with it

"Mumsnet is full of posters saying ' itll be hard but worth it, short term pain long term gain, grow your own veg'"

Haven't seen a single Brexiteer saying grow your own veg. Seen plenty of Remainers saying "give it a go because this shit might get bad/pricey and we all need to eat".

Err......I'm responding to Gilbert, who indicates he/she doubts the ill-effects of Brexit and we need to "suck and see" before we know.
Or some bollocks like that. Is that right Gilbert ?

Oh gawd! I got my posters mixed up. Sorry MrPan, that was meant to be aimed at Gilbert.

Turns out I missed a few posts. Apols everyone!

@givemesteel absolutely. The remain side has as many issues with their campaign as leave, but having sold themselves as the choice of the morally and intellectually superior people are very happy to overlook that fact and keep peddling the sound bite remainer mantras they have been fed.

Most remainers I’ve met have an inability to critically analyse the position and lazily follow the status quo. The inability to see both sides of the argument indicates the ones who don’t actually understand the position at all.

I saw the episode of question time with Lammy. What an awful man. He encapsulated everything about the remain side. Aggressive, shouting over everyone, school debating team discussion technique, the unvaried hand gestures, punching home his points indicates they were premeditated not natural, maybe he doesn’t actually believe what he was saying but trying to use every trick in the book to “win”. This is what the pantomime in parliament has been, people trying to progress their political career. Divide and rule!

And you solve the NI border issue by ..... how exactly @Lifeover .

But @Gilbert1A , the NI border is the only reason we haven't left yet. Tbe WA is basically an attempt to come up with something that respects TM's red line over NI and lets us leave. Any other issue is just a side show. If @Lifeover has nothing useful to say to solve that fundamental issue, everything else is just blah blah blah.

bellini

Fairly sure i have

Absolutely no idea which poster and thread though so no evidence

If a Leaver has nothing useful to say about the NI border, whining about elitism or people being mean to their delicate sensibilities is pointless.