Leavers being so dead against a second referendum is just proof they know they'll lose, surely?

[stillpinching]

If we had one and they won again it would be the ultimate confirmation that it really is the will of the people.

By refusing to countenance it and describing it as a betrayal they may as well say it's not the will of the people anymore we're insisting on honouring something no one with any sense and without a vested interest wants and we should therefore call it off.

We're being forced into something the people who most support it clearly know is no longer the people's choice that's going to do horrible damage to the country. Just why can no one stop it???

I can’t afford holidays. If Brexit hits some rich people in the wallet then so much the better

What a strange attitude to have 😂

To all those people whining about the 'fraud' in the Leave campaign, which whilst it shouldn't have happened, amounted to use of data to target some online ads and emails.

Yes they also use the gross figure we give to the eu every week rather than the net figure on the side of a bus.

If you really think that this is what made 17.4m people vote to leave the eu (some ads they shouldn't have got, and a slightly higher figure that we give to the eu) then, OK. I can't argue with that logic.

Remainers conveniently forget the £9m leg up that the remain campaign got by the government sending a 14 page door drop to every household in the country about why we should stay in the eu, at the tax payer's expense. This was 'legal' because the government did it but it shouldn't have been.

Each campaign had a budget of £7m but the Remain campaign got over double that with that £9m door drop campaign. And that's without all the free propaganda from the (again tax payer funded) BBC.

And yet leave still won. If you think the online ads and emails that Leave illegally sent had more impact than Project Fear, the £9m door drop paid for by tax payers... Then OK.

I voted leave. I am against a second referendum because if we have another referendum we are no better than the banana republics the UK claims to be better than. We are a proud and strong democracy, we are a politically stable nation and that's a big reason why we are economically strong.

We will prosper out of the EU, we will prosper with No Deal. But if our politicians undermine the very foundations of our democracy I worry we will just descend into an anarchy where nothing is sacred any more and that will be our economic undoing.

Brexit hugely benefits some rich people and has already made them much richer

To repeat - no deal is effectively delayed TM’s deal. In the chaos that happens between leaving and signing up to the PM’s deal some rich people will make a lot of money.

I did indeed see that episode of QT and his thin-skinned petulant moan was an embarrassment. As FB pointed out, others on the panel support leave now even if they didn't at the time. It's ridiculous to say that, for example, the Tory guy on there was promoting a remain agenda as he clearly wasn't. It was in London so yes, a lot of support for Lammy, but usually it's full of people yelling 'leave means leave' etc and farage has been on it a ridiculous number of times.

To all those people whining about the 'fraud' in the Leave campaign

Talking do you mean?

givemesteel that is an extremely biased, heavily minimised, view of the iniquities of the leave campaign.

To take just one aspect of this, it doesn't bother you that Russia interfered heavily to manipulate opinion, then? You think they have our best interests at heart, I suppose?

The leave side also displaying irregularities is further proof that a second referendum is needed, not a reason not to have one!

I agree with your point that these campaigns will not have been solely responsible for the outcome, though. This was heavily influenced by years and years of biased, manipulative reporting in the tabloids, and successive governments eagerly blaming the EU for policies/failings of their own, such as the decision the UK government took not to restrict FOM, when it could have done so. I agree that there are easily enough people in the UK without the critical thinking skills to be able to spot this, given the relentless drip drip of propaganda over many years.

This was 'legal' because the government did it but it shouldn't have been.

Of course it was legal - it was a Government information leaflet setting out its formal position.

Each campaign had a budget of £7m but the Remain campaign got over double that with that £9m door drop campaign. And that's without all the free propaganda from the (again tax payer funded) BBC.

Each campaign had way more funds available to it than £7 million.

How much money did Leave spend leafleting and buying Facebook ads peddling lies? We know it received £15.5 million from the top half dozen or so donors alone - including a nice leg up of £8.1 million from Banks (who is currently under criminal investigation regarding the source of that funding).

And why did the DUP spend £282k on advertising in the Metro which is not available in NI?

It's ridiculous to say that, for example, the Tory guy on there was promoting a remain agenda as he clearly wasn't.

He voted remain. He supports TM's deal, i.e. remaining part of the customs union, which is a direct contravention of his party's manifesto.

That you could consider this person a brexiteer explains very neatly the BBC bias.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

To all those people whining about the 'fraud' in the Leave campaign

Talking do you mean?

Nope, definitely used the word whining deliberately.

The Remain campaign were far from perfect and if they had won, every single thing they'd done would be under the same level of scrutiny.

The Remain campaign had everything stacked in its favour but still lost. So that's why I use the word whining as it is incredible that some people think that Leave would have lost if it hadn't been for x or y pretty minor thing in their campaign.

It's the ultimate in clutching at straws.

I'm still hoping Sosig will come back and tell us how she intends to prosper under a contracting economy or will she be so busy laughing at all the rich folk who have to find extra money for their European holiday visas

The EU hugely benefits lots of rich people including criminals and has made them richer.

*Alaskan why should anyone come over here for talks? It's us who are leaving and causing all the trouble.

Sorry, I missed this earlier. So your point is, why would Barnier (an EU bureaucrat) travel to the Prime Minster of the United Kingdom to discuss its future trading agreement? You think it's more sensible that the Prime Minister should make hundreds of trips to see him?

@AlaskanOilBaron *

The UK is the one asking for a deal, therefore the representative of the UK does the travelling.

Fucksake the point of re-running the ref would not be because Leave won, it would be because it was utterly tainted by corruption regardless of which side won.

I don't give a fuck whether he's a ' brexitier'. Her deal is bad enough, no deal is an absolute disaster economically, by pretty much all accounts, including jrm, who thinks it'll be ok in about 50 years, and the government's own estimations. There should be no place for that view in the mainstream political discourse. No government is elected to make its citizens poorer, even if they say they want it, especially when at least nearly half patently don't want it.

I don't give a fuck whether he's a ' brexitier'. Her deal is bad enough, no deal is an absolute disaster economically, by pretty much all accounts, including jrm, who thinks it'll be ok in about 50 years, and the government's own estimations. There should be no place for that view in the mainstream political discourse.

Well, thanks for your honesty.

Eaten and you don't think there are equally corrupt wealthy individuals taking advantage of the system over here? Do you not think that we benefit at all (as poorer people) from being part of a powerful trading block? Please don't tell me we survived two world wars or I really will despair..

Thank you for replying give

Im not really happy with any emotive, insulting, goady and exaggerated language being used, i think its very devisive (nearly wrote decisive then )

I know other people are though, i think some (not you) are enjoying whipping people up....oh and i also think that some people are SAYING they voted one way or another just to stir (again not you)

I'd love it if another referendum was in favour of leave again.

I'm still hoping Sosig will come back and tell us how she intends to prosper under a contracting economy
I don’t prosper now so I can’t be much worse off. Time for other people to enjoy a bit of that misery too and find out what it’s like to struggle.

Me too, @biker47. But they still wouldn't let us leave.

Why on earth would you want to be more insular, poorer, less educated, ill-er, restricted on travel and holiday options, rend some families apart, have limited impact on world events, experience a further surge in racism, and all else we know Brexshit brings?

And all by choice.

It would be fab if all those people who want all of that have it, and we others who don't wish to self-limit our life chances continue as previously.

@ChavvyOldBrexiteer , we would have left on 29 March if it wasn't for the NI border issue. We caused that. We ignored it prior to the referendum (I didn't but 17.4 million people did) and we are still whining about it being other people's fault .
The EU is not stopping us from leaving. We have an international obligation under GFA to do it inan orderly way.

Sosig seriously? think of it all as dropping down in levels, you will also be dropping down. Those above you financially can afford to drop a few levels but can you? It will affect everything! Education, hospitals, policing, social care etc