Leavers being so dead against a second referendum is just proof they know they'll lose, surely?

[stillpinching]

If we had one and they won again it would be the ultimate confirmation that it really is the will of the people.

By refusing to countenance it and describing it as a betrayal they may as well say it's not the will of the people anymore we're insisting on honouring something no one with any sense and without a vested interest wants and we should therefore call it off.

We're being forced into something the people who most support it clearly know is no longer the people's choice that's going to do horrible damage to the country. Just why can no one stop it???

Some, then. That is a fact.

@Queen, nobody knows. That’s why some of us are very scared.

Sorry but most Leave voters have not died. The ones I know are in their 20s, 30s and 40s. I know a Remain voter that has died, my mum. I don't care how people voted: don't be callous about the loss of someone's loved one.

@QueenOfIce , ask the MoD, they don't seem to think it'll be fiiiiiine.
Hopefully it wouldn't be as bad as people fear but it's hard to see it will be lovely.

Yes @Gilbert and a lot of young people who want to remain have attained voting age. And it’s their future that’s being game played.

Ok so no one is really in possession of the facts we're all being fed propaganda from both sides which is causing a huge amount of fear and anger. What if we leave and we are fine (eventually) what if things aren't as awful as people's worst fears is that even conceivable? It bothers me how some remainers appear to be baying for leavers blood. It bothers me how we as a country are so easily divided without the true facts. It bothers me that our inept government has managed to cause such anger that people are turning on each other.

Me too @Queen. Remainers and leavers are both baying for one another’s blood. It’s riven the entire country. No wonder Cameron’s gone to ground.

I’m not gleeful either. Just pointing out that they have. Don’t you care about young people @Gilbert?

Define "fine (eventually) " @QueenOfIce . A week? A month? A quarter? A year? 2 years? JRM's 50 years?

The EU's plans for the Union post 2020 are published on their website and in other areas as roadmaps and consultations. Because I am involved in some of these areas (cant say which too outing for me personally) I have read these documents and I do not like nor agree with their direction of travel. New funding programmes like SFP being devolved to nation states to set their own rules, closer military integration, the removal of the veto etc etc. and many more. This is why I voted to leave because I have read the EU's direction of travel in their own words.

why would anyone trust the current crop of politicians to listen to and act upon another referendum? I don't. So if leave won would we have a "they lied again" post here?

we had a referendum. we were told it was once in a lifetime. they lied - they want another one.

if the politicians weren't going to listen to the referendum and it was an indicative vote then why did they trigger article 50 in the first place?

The only way to restore faith in politics and to start to heal the UKs divide would be if every single politician currently in parliament stood down and only those who have never served could be on the ballot paper.

Kirsty, to call all leavers Neanderthals is utterly ridiculous, your arguments seem to centre on slagging off millions of people and hoping most of them are dead. No doubt you are also the type of person who goes round saying leavers are all racists. No doubt you’re the kind of misguided fool who cleaves to their remain vote as for once you’re in with the intellectually and morally superior group.

If you could focus your attention on arguments based on verifiable facts and reasonable predictions relating to the constitution, economics and likely future paths of the Eu and UK if we were to remain that would be smashing.

Because the others aren’t relevant to the argument. Stop being so goady @Gilbert. And if you can’t see the relevance of young people’s votes, there’s no hope for you.

mummymeister
The EU's plans for the Union post 2020 are published on their website and in other areas as roadmaps and consultations. Because I am involved in some of these areas (cant say which too outing for me personally) I have read these documents and I do not like nor agree with their direction of travel. New funding programmes like SFP being devolved to nation states to set their own rules, closer military integration, the removal of the veto etc etc. and many more.

But (some) remainers voted for the status quo, that wasn't going to change, (some) remainers voted remain because not to do so would mean that they were thick and racist.

could it be that they. The moral majority were actually lied too.

But its apparently beyond rational thinking that (some) leavers actually have valid concerns.

Alsohuman - on QT a few weeks ago people were asked how they voted and how they would now vote. it was interesting that some people voted leave and now switched to remain. some voted remain but switched to leave (they wanted to honour the democratic process of the vote) and yet again give or take a couple of percentage points it was a 50:50 split.

in my family 2 of my DC will be eligible to vote that weren't before. they both want to vote to leave. Many of their peers do actually because they feel that politicians aren't listening and need a kick up the backside.

as a leaver I probably hear lots of "leaver" stories because that's the camp I am in. as a "remainer" you probably hear lots of remainer stories and it skews both of our thinking imv. There isn't suddenly going to be a 70:30 type vote. its going to be close whatever way it goes. I wouldn't disregard anyones vote. but certainly the remainer camp was completely guilty last time of only listening to other remainers and those that spoke to pollsters. that's why the politicians were so sure we were going to vote remain and the polls reflected this too.

Actually, I think a second referendum could be a good idea, but the question needs to be Mays deal or no deal. The people have already decided to leave we just need to say how. The twats that are supposed to represent us are wasting parliamentary time and causing so much uncertainty arguing over questions that can be answered once the WA is signed. All trying to further their political careers cuntbyn is just trying to get in number 10, Doris is trying to maintain a low profile so he can get in number 10 hiding behind JRM who’s sacrificable as he has such unpopular views away from Brexit and has the Eton millstone round his neck he’s never getting into number 10, chuckie ran away and formed his own gang of misfits so he could lead something and they’re desperately trying to find things they have in common, suddenly apparently the best of mates. Bercow -well it doesn’t take Freud to psychoanalyse his grab for power, someone needs to tell him it is a democracy not a dictatorship.

Just sign the bloody WA. Move on, negotiate about future relationship with EU. Anyone frustrating the process has no interest in the stability of the UK.

Boneyback - there are a lot of lies, on both sides. that's why I would urge everyone to go onto the EU website and read for themselves.

The average age of Leave voters was a lot higher than for Remain voters. It is absolutely not a good argument for running the referendum again, but it is statistically very likely that more Leave voters have passed away than Remain voters since he Referendum. Quite how material that would be if the vote was re-run I have no idea.

John Curtice's analysis (8th Feb 2019) is that the swing to Remain in the polls is because those who had not voted before (in some cases because they had been too young to do so) were now decisively in favour of Remain.