To wonder what working parents are meant to do in school holidays?

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

DD1 starts school in September. DP and I both work because we can't afford for either one of us to be off. I have applied for part time but my work have been spectacularly backward and refused point blank, which is a whole other thread. I am looking for another job but work in a very specific field in a very specific industry so it's not looking likely that I'll get something, much less part time.
DD1 school have a before and after school club which is over subscribed so she won't get in for the first year. We have scrabbled around and managed to cover the week with GPs and a childminder.
So on to the holidays. DD1 will have 13 weeks off school a year. Between us, me and DP will have just under 10 weeks holiday. AIBU to think that if the govt wants parents (particularly mothers) to work then there needs to be better holiday provision? I'm not blindingly sure what working parents are expected to do after 3pm every day and for the 13 weeks children are off in the year. At the moment all our holiday days will be spent covering time off school and we won't be able to have a holiday together as a family.

School isn't a childminding service. It's for your child's education. What about if your child is unwell or there is an unexpected school closure?

Of course it's childcare but some teachers seem to be sniffy about that. My kids nursery spent all their time educating my children fora lot less money than teachers are paid. And if one of my children were sick at nursery or there was an unexpected closure (not that there ever was, nursery seemed to be able to open in bad weather even when school didn't ) then DH or I had to take annual leave to cover that.

OP here. Just a few clarifications:

1. I didn't have children until I was 38 and 41. Didn't meet DP until I was 34 but ultimately we wanted to be sure we had a stable relationship, secure home and were financially comfortable before we bought children into the mix. I thought that was sensible. Even if I had checked local childcare provision for school age children then it would have been useless - 4 or 5 years later everything is different.

2. I'm not actually suggesting childcare should be free or funded by the government. What I am suggesting is that if the government wants to encourage working mothers, they need to ensure there is adequate childcare options before/after school and in the holidays to allow for that.

3. I did plan in advance. DDs school has a before and after school club. Sorted. However, it was a surprise to learn at the open day in December that there wasn't anywhere close to the supply to meet the demand. I then looked at childminders and nurseries. They were all booked up for September. Every single one. In the last week a friend of a friend has set herself up as a childminder so we're now sorted, thank goodness.

4. Holiday clubs do exist in our local area but they aren't even close to working hours, so we'll still end up using up holiday to cover them.

5. Given the number of posters in a similar position, ours is clearly not a unique situation. That means there is a systematic failure to support working parents and, let's face it, it's still mothers who shoulder the vast responsibility of childcare. We have a situation where employers don't sufficiently support flexible working for BOTH parents, where childcare provision is at best patchy and is often too expensive (I.e. it becomes a money-making venture as opposed to offering a service that covers costs), where the gender pay gap goes through the roof as women enter their 30s when they have children. And yet there are posters here who think "tough shit, you had children, you sort all this out". How on earth am I going to sort out structural inequalities in our society? That is fundamentally the government's job, not mine.

I have two daughters and I hate to think that by the time they have children they will still be fighting their way through this minefield of inequality.

If my son told me he didn't like a particular holiday club we didn't use it again. It didn't really happen except when he outgrew the activities or the age range of the children going was younger than him. Activities might say they are eg 8-12 but if all the kids there are 9, it's not good if you are 12.

I don't think he enjoyed every activity he ever did, but he wouldn't have enjoyed every activity he did with me or his dad or my mum, either. Life isn't perfect and there has to be compromise.

HRTWT. If you don’t have helpful family close by it’s impossible. DH and I both have professional careers, and we both need to leave the house at 7am. Save for a nanny, there is no childcare available locally to us that starts at 6.45am, and even if there was I’m not inflicting leaving the house at 6.30am everyday on 2 children. We are covering next week with a combination of holiday clubs.....that don’t start til 9am and finish at 3(????) and a university student in her holidays, but she can’t do all day as she needs to study for exams.
And whilst many work because they have to, I know a growing list of professional women (mostly drs and lawyers) with well paid OHs who are giving up because the stress of organising childcare -and yes, even if you can afford a nanny, managing the nanny can be a full time job in itself- added to the enormous financial burden of paying for said nanny (who does nothing for 6 hours a day while your children are at school) just isn’t worth it. We are loosing some of our most highly trained female professionals because childcare is so difficult.

School isn't a childminding service. It's for your child's education. What about if your child is unwell or there is an unexpected school closure

Oh yes, the MN mantra that you can't have children if you can't guarantee back up childcare for the next 20 years. Heaven forbid that you eg need to work or your parents grow older and can't help at all/anymore, or you don't have close friends or other family who can help. Nope, you shouldn't have kids. Utterly ludicrous.

Isabellerosignel- it’s the patronising faux concern that’s irritating though.

I completely accept that if you have a child who is really unhappy and insecure in childcare settings - whether that’s a more homely cm environment or a more structured club type- then that’s tough because it limits your choices as parents. Though I would maintain that it should still be an issue for both parents not just default to the mother.

But it’s just rather wearing when the same old same old posters pop up with the faux concern about other people’s children. As if working parents somehow don’t know their own children and we’re just dumping our children and running and have no clue whether they’re happy or not. We are still the primary influence in our children’s lives. We’re the ones who know them inside out and judge on a day to day basis how they are feeling.

To be frank, childcare is so damned expensive that it’s one thing you can be pretty sure working parents look very carefully at. When I was paying the same as my monthly salary on nursery fees I made sure it was a damn good one with a great balance of structure and down time, indoor /outdoor play, healthy lunch etc. If I’d wanted a home from home environment I’d have looked carefully at childminders.

If I’m being completely honest the only time I ever really thought about anyone else’s childcare arrangements was when my kids were at primary school and I regularly saw a worn out granny puffing away on a fag with several grandkids trailing along behind her. Presumably this was a convenient and free arrangement, but the granny looked totally done in, as if the last thing she wanted was to be doing a school drop off before caring for toddlers all day. But I’d still try hard not to judge that because I’d assume the parents of those kids were in low paid jobs, needing to work and couldn’t afford regulated childcare

Just to add, the people I have met for whom childcare does seem to work are very militant in their decisions- they will choose a house close to their work and a school that fits with the 2 already decided factors. They don’t necessarily like where they live or the school /nursery their DC go to, but ‘it works’. I’m not prepared to live like that.

If school isn’t childminding then they need to keep their noses out of lunchboxes etc. if you’re professional educators stick to that and leave the parenting to the parents.

@acciocat - brilliant post! Couldn't agree more.

It's even worse when your employer won't allow leave during the school holidays 😔

Holiday clubs are a solution.

Has their father asked if his work will go e him part time instead. Why is it usually the mother doing this with her job as soon as kids need looking after? Pfft.

It isn’t faux concern to be worried about children in general, given that we know full well that intellect and achievement have been falling off pretty dramatically for more than a generation and the situation shows no sign of improvement - on the contrary.

Of course there’s nothing wrong with being concerned about children in general. The rest of your post is bollocks btw

And whilst many work because they have to, I know a growing list of professional women (mostly drs and lawyers) with well paid OHs who are giving up because the stress of organising childcare -and yes, even if you can afford a nanny, managing the nanny can be a full time job in itself- added to the enormous financial burden of paying for said nanny (who does nothing for 6 hours a day while your children are at school) just isn’t worth it. We are loosing some of our most highly trained female professionals because childcare is so difficult.

Difficult - and, nearly always, unsatisfactory for highly academic parents who are justifiably anxious about the long term effects of their children spending a lot of time with rather in academic adults.

Unacademic

The rest of your post is bollocks btw

No it’s not. Do some reading.

In NZ most childcare’s ate degree educated

“ we know full well that intellect and achievement have been falling off pretty dramatically for more than a generation and the situation shows no sign of improvement”

Evidence??

highly academic parents who are justifiably anxious about the long term effects of their children spending a lot of time with rather unacademic adults.

I see this as total bollocks frankly.

I’m educated to PhD level and have a successful career. I value education hugely.

Yet I see that all kinds of people, with all kinds of skills, talents, abilities can help my DC learn and grow.

I chose my DCs nursery carefully and though I’m sure the staff would be classified as ‘unacademic’ to you, they have a wealth of skills and have been brilliant with my DC. He’s absolutely flourished there. In addition, he’s been nurtured at home by highly educated, highly involved parents.

When it comes to holiday clubs and the like, I’ll be delighted at him spending time with ‘unacademic’ people who are great with kids and love the area they specialise in.

Have you actually not heard or read anything about this?

@acciocat not being judgmental at all, and yes, what works for me is not right for everyone. But the op wanted to know what working parents do.

That said, the choice remains with every single parent, it's up to each one to find a strategy that suits them and their children, and that means NOT relying on government support or school to watch children while parents are at work.

School is school, it is what it is and the holidays won't change just because parents are working. And as a business, childminders and paid nurseries won't drop their rates just because they are charging the equivalent of one parent's monthly wage. They are in demand and can charge what they want.

So the decision rests with each parent, and at BASE level, that choice is 1. pay the bill, 2. change your job, 3. don't have kids.

OF COURSE, every family is different, some have extended families that will help (we didn't have that) and some with have close friends, (we didn't have that as we had moved to s new area). Some have split or blended families who can all chip in, and some - like us - just have no one and have to make changes to suit. But it's OUR responsibility as parents to do that, not the school, not the government.

We are loosing some of our most highly trained female professionals because childcare is so difficult

I think this is a sad indictment of society and how it has failed women in particular.

About what? You seem unable to back up your ludicrous statements with any evidence!

acciocat 28 days is the minimum? Not the case - I have worked in places with 20 and 25 days per year....

Bluesheep: 28 days paid leave is the legal minimum in the U.K.

You may not be able to choose when you take it, you may have to include bank holidays in it ... but it is an entitlement.