To wonder what working parents are meant to do in school holidays?

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

DD1 starts school in September. DP and I both work because we can't afford for either one of us to be off. I have applied for part time but my work have been spectacularly backward and refused point blank, which is a whole other thread. I am looking for another job but work in a very specific field in a very specific industry so it's not looking likely that I'll get something, much less part time.
DD1 school have a before and after school club which is over subscribed so she won't get in for the first year. We have scrabbled around and managed to cover the week with GPs and a childminder.
So on to the holidays. DD1 will have 13 weeks off school a year. Between us, me and DP will have just under 10 weeks holiday. AIBU to think that if the govt wants parents (particularly mothers) to work then there needs to be better holiday provision? I'm not blindingly sure what working parents are expected to do after 3pm every day and for the 13 weeks children are off in the year. At the moment all our holiday days will be spent covering time off school and we won't be able to have a holiday together as a family.

‘The problem is that two parent families used to include in be worker, and one house person’

Quite aside from the fact that this has never been a universal norm, I’m very glad that I’ve been able to go out to work, use my skills and qualifications just as my dh does, rather than the expectation being that working life is ‘lesser’ and that I’m there simply to be a ‘house person.’

See I wish there was more of a healthy medium between being a houseperson and a worthwhile career

There are plenty of DCs with SAHP who go to holiday clubs. In fact where i live, SAHPs are the only people who can use the free 10-3 council run holiday clubs as the hours don't work for WOHPs. The club's are always packed.

Longestlurk - I know. It always happens though. The OP has made it clear she has no problem with holiday care- she wants it but it isn’t available. Then you get the usual suspects pitching in with doom and gloom about the poor kiddies.

I’ve worked right the way through from when my children were tiny; they are now all over 20. I think I’d know if they were damaged by having been in childcare. Seeing as they are all well adjusted, happy and have done well in university and their own careers and relationships, oh and are close to dh and me as well, I think we’ve done ok.

But you know I sometimes wonder if it’s these facts which piss a few posters off. They can only feel comfortable with their own situation if they can create some ‘evidence’ that other people’s choices aren’t as good.

Much as I agree with the sentiment that flexible working is the way forward for both sexes, Infind your use of “healthy medium” a bit value laden Snuggly.

I don't think there is a stigma per se it's just for some children doing 8-6, 5 days a week for 6 weeks make not feel like down time.

For me neither staying at home or being a full time career woman would be healthy. Sadly there are limited options for flexible and part time work.

@Yabbers yes I know that, but it's the same wherever you go. There isn't a perfect answer that will please everyone, and these days, lots of parents work extended hours. Which leaves me thinking, if you and your partner/dh leave for work at seven and can't pick your kids up until you're on you way home just after six, what's the point in having them? Other people will see them more than you do!

People might think I took the easy way out by letting my husband concentrate on his career while I took a part time term time job in a school kitchen so I would always be around for our kids, but as our kids grew up, the hours got better and so did the pay. Now that job has turned into a career which has seen me win five awards in the last 18 month, my children are grown and I still get the holidays to concentrate on other things.

And to top it all, absolutely NO childcare bills. Not one. Never.

There is an alternative to working your tits off to pay all your wage out in childcare, and that is to get a term time job with less pay but no child care bills.

Favenumber well done on your awards. You’ve clearly made a choice that works well for your and your dh.

Your comment about ‘why bother having children’ stinks though.

So what if some parents both have full on careers? You seem to think they’re wrong to become parents and have no right to have children

FWIW I personally wouldn’t want for me and dh to both be out of the home for 11 hours a day 5 days a week, and we chose to both pursue careers where it wasn’t quite so full on but where we could both achieve and feel fulfilled. But we know families where both parents had very full on careers and you know what? Their children are lovely. In fact if you look at my kids and their peers (in their 20s) you’d be hard pushed to tell which ones had parents where both worked or just one worked.

Why be so judgemental? Just because something doesn’t suit you it doesn’t mean people who do things differently shouldn’t be allowed children

Snuggly that’s why we fight for employment rights. So we have annual leave, parental leave, flexible working rights (these are a bit wishy washy atm but dh and I both have part time professional careers) and we don’t let them get flushed away. I also think family time should be valued and there should be more tolerance of term time holiday. But it’s not necessary to have 13 weeks annual leave spread exactly over school holidays for children to have a decent childhood.

I am giving up on this thread, fed up with people sticking their heads in the sand and blaming selfish individuals (by which they mean mothers) not being sufficiently psychic nor able to personally change the entire infrastructure of an area. I have worked in plenty of environments where there were few other parents of young DC and I can assure you that the way the primary admissions system, wraparound and holiday care works (or doesn't) is complete news to most people before they have a DC. Most people simply don't understand or acknowledge the problem, including those in management and government, lthough they seem puzzled about the difficulty recruiting and retaining. The only exception to this general lack of interest is the heads of private schools as they know which side their bread is buttered... P.S. If you think this is an individual problem and Japan is too far away to relate, Google 'Finland's demographic time bomb'. Small country, low birth rate (immigrants excluded), not much childcare, big companies closing or leaving... I don't have a horse in this game. I'm another Londoner with a plethora of provision locally. Doesn't mean I believe it's the same everywhere or that I don't understand the career limiting effect on e.g. women, especially single parents.

I once muttered the comment about why bothering to have children if you are working full time. Admittedly when I was a naive childless 20 something. I went back to work after having my kids and was bloody glad I did. 1 year later my DH lost his job and had to retrain and we were very glad I had a decent career and could keep the family supported.

Staying in work is hedging your bets. You never know what’s around the corner.

Bl3ss3dm0m Troll

Buy extra holiday from employer if possible and then use Childminder's?

What have you done up till now for childcare?

Childminder's aren't much more expensive than the before and after school clubs - if you have a tax free childcare account you can use this for several more years and whatever you put in the government tops up 20%

Unfortunately employers aren't likely to start giving more holiday - UK is already pretty generous compared to other countries

There should be more flexibility on start/finish times though to enable working parents to at least drop off kids st school in morning - also schools really need to look at their working day - finishing at 3pm doesn't suit anyone x

I don’t think I disagree. There should be decent value holiday clubs covering working hours, and wrap around care. There should be decent quality employment rights with decent amounts of annual leave. I find it hard to believe that if my crap council can sort this others can’t, if the private sector hasn’t already cornered the market. We should be prepared to help each other out where we can, to build communities and support each other.

If none of this happens in your area I agree that’s shit and needs sorting. I thought examples of decent quality provision might be helpful for people to see that poor provision is not inevitable in this country.

I also think there’s a certain attitude coming through this thread that even if there were decent quality provision, that would be a poor substitute to a SAHP though (and probably a SAHM). That’s probably why my posts came across as a bit arsier than they should have.

One thing that does puzzle me a little bit is why people say holiday cover is so expensive, when it’s so much less expensive than nursery, though. I think that’s where subsidies would really help.

But you know I sometimes wonder if it’s these facts which piss a few posters off. They can only feel comfortable with their own situation if they can create some ‘evidence’ that other people’s choices aren’t as good.

I don't think that's true. I think though that it's fair to acknowledge that some children don't enjoy childcare settings. I have two children and one does really well in that sort of setting and one was made thoroughly miserable by it. Similarly I have two adult nieces who are siblings, and one of them looks back fondly on their time at nursery and after school club whilst the other feels nothing but resentment because she says she hated every moment of it and begged not to have to go but was told she had no choice.

I'd never judge any families decisions but at the same time I'm not going to pretend that I'd have been a happy child in 50+ hours of childcare a week to please anyone. All children are different and all families can do is try to juggle all the needs as best they can.

I just think many employers are greedy grasping fuckers and as a society we need to be pushing back and insisting on things such as those longestlurkerever mentioned. Otherwise we'd be even more screwed.

Actually, on reflection, I think the cost of housing is relevant here too. Even a holiday club that ran from 8 to 6 wouldn't help me because I have to leave for work earlier than that and don't get home until later. Because I have to factor in my commute. If I could afford to live nearer work, 8 until 6 would be fine.

I think cost of housing and cost of childcare are very intertwined. People need to maximize their income to get a mortgage or rent a house, but to maximize their income they need childcare.

I agree that good childcare should be available for all, regardless of where you live but it isn’t cheap and local authorities certainly have no funds to provide when there are so many demands- policing, transport etc. I don’t agree that the UK has poor employment rights or annual leave entitlements - these have continued to improve - maternity pay, minimum level of holidays, employment protection, employer childcare vouchers, parental leave. These are all so much better than when I had my DC’s 20 years ago.

I am giving up on this thread, fed up with people sticking their heads in the sand and blaming selfish individuals (by which they mean mothers) not being sufficiently psychic nor able to personally change the entire infrastructure of an area.

Excellent description.

I don't think our employment rights are necessarily poor or school system is necessarily bad I just think the two systems along with our property market, norms on how much supervision children need and benefit system really don't work well together.

Well that much is clear. And it's not inevitable. We could stop artificially inflating the property market for a start.

In regards to holiday clubs, I’ve found the children who only attend odd days and the younger children really enjoy it - up to around year 3.

It’s the older children who attend much of the holiday who get fed up. They get fed up with being supervised and seek out quiet spaces or start to show their tiredness at being with others through their behaviour. I do believe everyone, regardless of age, needs time just to potter about at home.

Tumbleweed, what are you actually asking for here though? More annual leave? A right to take parental leave? Permission to leave your older child at home? Understanding from other parents who may agree to mind your dc for a while? Or agreement that both parents working out of the home is a terrible idea? That’s where I am struggling to understand this sort of post.

This thread shows how obsessed we have got with our kids and their happiness. My holiday club was playing outside for hours on end and coming back for lunch and tea. My mum didn’t have the funds to take us on expensive days out and we rarely went on holiday. We were perfectly happy! Now mums have a go at each other as to whether being a SAHM or working parent is superior. It didn’t matter back then as neither type of parent spent the whole school holidays entertaining their child!!!