To wonder what working parents are meant to do in school holidays?

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

DD1 starts school in September. DP and I both work because we can't afford for either one of us to be off. I have applied for part time but my work have been spectacularly backward and refused point blank, which is a whole other thread. I am looking for another job but work in a very specific field in a very specific industry so it's not looking likely that I'll get something, much less part time.
DD1 school have a before and after school club which is over subscribed so she won't get in for the first year. We have scrabbled around and managed to cover the week with GPs and a childminder.
So on to the holidays. DD1 will have 13 weeks off school a year. Between us, me and DP will have just under 10 weeks holiday. AIBU to think that if the govt wants parents (particularly mothers) to work then there needs to be better holiday provision? I'm not blindingly sure what working parents are expected to do after 3pm every day and for the 13 weeks children are off in the year. At the moment all our holiday days will be spent covering time off school and we won't be able to have a holiday together as a family.

Snuggy I haven't taken it but others have with no issues.

You put a request in to say when you would like it, details here www.gov.uk/parental-leave/delaying-leave on when employer can ask for it to be delayed.

I'm guessing it depends on the workplace. My last boss tried to stop people carrying over leave purely because she didn't want the hassle of it. An request for unpaid parental leave would have gone down like a sack of shit

Hopefully it will become more normal in the future

Op it's actually cheaper to stick your child in a pre-prep for around £5k a year. Most prepreps are inclusive of breakfast club, afterschool club and full hours holiday clubs.

Why the hell is it in anyway the governments responsibility to have provisions for additional holidays so that people can look after their children?
Having children is a choice, it's the parents responsibility not the governments.
The last thing the world needs right now is more people, it'd be different if there was a burning need for a larger population

Importing labour rather than having a birthrate and training policy for homegrown labour hasn’t proven very successful.

Having children is a choice, it's the parents responsibility not the governments.

The last thing the world needs right now is more people, it'd be different if there was a burning need for a larger population

You’re conflating environmental issues with the economic systems our country operates on. They’re separate things.

Economically we absolutely do need more children. Their taxes will pay your pension. They’ll be the ones wiping your arse on your care home, treating you in hospital. The system needs a constant supply of new humans.

Plus, I think you have to take into consideration the strong biological need for humans to reproduce. To define it as a ‘choice’ is far too simplistic.

Finally, economically we’ve created a world where a) working 9-5 (and far beyond) is an expectation of employees and b) two incomes are often required to buy a house and fund retirement.

It’s pretty shitty, frankly, to support this system, yet tell parents airily that ‘their children are their responsibility’ with no provision for those children when school hours are up. It’s literally asking the impossible.

The Scandinavian countries show us how this can be done and they reap the rewards with more equality between men and women.

I have only read the first few pages of this thread but I always hate these type of threads, as they descend into ‘well if you can’t afford to have children don’t have them, don’t expect the government to pay for your child etc.’

While it is 100% true that it is your responsibility as a parent to provide for your children, it doesn’t stop it being HARD. Some holiday clubs are prohibitively expensive. Some people don’t have friends or family living locally enough to cobble together help. Some people’s wages NO MATTER what they do will never be enough to cover childcare.

There are so many variables. OP I hear you.

Also children are party of society. It can't just be reduced to an individual choice.

Designing society around family life, health, supportive relationships etc would be an excellent way forward.

Designing society around family life, health, supportive relationships etc would be an excellent way forward

Absolutely. Rather than always prioritising the needs of business.

I don’t always find myself agreeing with you maria but this is spot on.

It's 100% your responsibility to provide for your children - yes but that shouldn't have to extend to setting up an entirely new system of education and childcare to allow you to do the work that would enable you to provide for those children.

The system should already be in place as the collective aim of humanity is presumably to survive and prosper and we need a range of ages of well cared for, well-adjusted human in order to do that.

Some people on here are intent on living out their own private 'Children of Men' style fantasy.

Fiveredbricks I don't know where you've got those figures from but my DD's outer London pre-prep costs that per term not per year and those things you list are not included. I don't disagree with your point but certainly in London and of you have more than one child, a nanny is competitive with paying fees and achieves the same goal. And in fact a few parents at the school use a nanny instead of the wrap around anyway, presumably because they need more than 7.30am-6pm or would prefer the DC at home more.

Nannies provide flexibility that institutions don’t and for that reason alone they are a necessity for parents who cannot guarantee to be at school at precise times every day of the year.

But nannies are ridiculously expensive; beyond the reach of most. The fact that you have to pay them for 6 hours a day when your kids are at school just adds insult to injury- I get that they can’t get another job, but many don’t want to do housework or anything that isn’t directly related to childcare. Sure you get them for the holidays, but we were paying for 30 hours a week when less than 1/2 were spent with children.

Holiday club, taking leave at separate times unless we’re actually going away on holiday. You can also get unpaid parental leave in blocks of one week. Your employee cannot sent you it, although they can give a business reason for not allowing it on the requested dates, but they must make an alternative available within 6 months.

I found it’s not actually as difficult to manage as it seemed it would be, with careful planning.

Did you know you are entitled to 4 weeks parental leave per year per child? It's unpaid and you need to give 21 days notice but very useful. It's a statutory right after 26 weeks continuous service not discessionary

chubby yes it's been mentioned on this thread. But, if you request it during peak holiday seasons (I.e school holidays), there is a chance your employer could refuse it for business reasons and offer it on a random week in September which totally defeats the object

Yes, it can easily be refused for business reasons.

There is no more important business than bringing children into the world and rearing them so that they can help society to continue and that should be number one priority.

We hear a lot about citizen wage but I think we need a parent wage. Every household with parents of children up to the age of 16, should be given the equivalent of an average wage, so that they have the choice of part time work or indeed no work if that suited their family situation better.

It really is time to put families first and of course there is money to pay for it. It could also be supplemented by higher corporation and business taxes and those without children could make a one off taxation payment every year. After all, they too will benefit from those children at some point.

Take most (if not all) of your leave separately to your partner to start with I guess. That doubles the time your child is not in paid childcare.

Those without children could make a one off taxation payment every year to pay for those with children to stay at home??!! Is the most ridiculous notion. Those without children are already via their taxes paying for the education and health etc of children. Why should you pay higher taxes if you don't have kids? Barmy.

The reason not many people take parental leave is because its more expensive to lose a week's pay than to pay for childcare. If it could be taken as odd days it would be more popular but the statutory right is to week long blocks.

@fromsheffieldtobrighton - increasing corporation tax and business rates will kill businesses and lead to less employment opportunities rather than help increase the number able to be in employment.

Families do get much more financial and employment assistance than even 20 years ago when I had my DC’s. It is now much better and easier to return to work after maternity leave. It’s no where near perfect but improving.

It is definitely tough! We live in an EU country where the kids are off for two weeks now at Easter, three weeks over Christmas and THIRTEEN weeks over summer. DD1s first year we had to juggle and it was awful. Second year my young SIL came to live with us for the summer and care for DD1. Third year I was on mat leave for DD2. Fourth year I had to leave my job because of this ridiculousness and now set up by own business working from home instead.

So the UK ain't necessarily the worst offender? I only ask because everything I read here seems to want to propose that the UK is the worst country in the EU for a parent. It's not that I'm influenced, because my DC are adult now, but the harder and further I look, the less I like the groupthink. I am a fencesitter.politically. F*cking uncomfy, it is too.